25 Oct 08
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThat is perfectly acceptable. That is how you should answer.
lol, jaywill, i will give an answer to these most interestingly phrased questions after some careful examination of the text and the scriptures sited, because as in chess, one false move or one inaccuracy can lead us into peril, so i will need a little time for research and/meditation, so that as Solomon states, we may find the correct words
Eccl ...[text shortened]... y heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven', 😀
Let me know.
26 Oct 08
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillHi, im back after much thought and deliberation, therefore, in reply to your questions, if i may take them verse by verse, for example:
[b]That is perfectly acceptable. That is how you should answer.
Let me know.[/
exodus 6:3 we read,'And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them', - here God Almighty is from the Hebrew. El'Shaddai (a different word from mighty god which is used at Isaiah 9:6) and in the greek Theos'on au'ton and in Latin Deo'omnipotente (omnipotent).
at Zechariah 4:2 we read,'Thus saith the LORD my God; Feed the flock of the slaughter', - this phrase 'the lord my god', from the masoretic text reads Yehwah Elo'hai, literally Jehovah almighty) and from the syrian text we get in greek Kyrios pantokrator, literally “God, Almighty, this last Greek word (pantokrator) being particularly significant.
and finally at Ezeikil chapter ten verse 5 we read, 'And the sound of the cherubims' wings was heard even to the outer court, as the voice of the Almighty God when he speaketh.', - again this phrase almighty god comes from hebrew El'Shaddai, meaning all mighty
so what gives jaywill, i think that we can honestly say with complete certainty that the almighty is mentioned in these particular books! 😀
26 Oct 08
Originally posted by Rajk999The trinity is firmly based in the words of jesus regarding the Holy Spirit , Jesus's relationship to his Father and the activity of the Holy Spirit.
You want an alternative for a non-existant (Biblically) manmade concept?
The words of Jesus are in the Bible I believe. I have quoted them. How do you make sense of "when He the comforter comes he will guide you into all truth" ? Or "that they may be as One Father as we are One"?
If you have no answer just say so.
26 Oct 08
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI think he is up to something.
Hi, im back after much thought and deliberation, therefore, in reply to your questions, if i may take them verse by verse, for example:
exodus 6:3 we read,'And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them', - here God Almighty is from the Hebrew. El'Shaddai (a dif ...[text shortened]... h complete certainty that the almighty is mentioned in these particular books! 😀
It has to do with 'THE BRANCH' (Christ) also in a couple of those books.
26 Oct 08
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou say you have no discussed the Holy Spirit , well perhaps we should because it's clear jesus discussed it and it is Biblical.
we haven't even discussed the holy spirit, as for the whole discussion with regard to Christ being one with the father, Nemesio has covered it quite comprehensively and i have nothing more to say that he has not already stated in the most convincing, clear and succinct manner.
it is the trinitarians who are lost here, i don know if you have notice ...[text shortened]... sed on what others perceive us to be, please do not make the same mistake!
regards Robert.
How about we start at a point we can agree on? Jesus said he was to live in us yes?
26 Oct 08
Originally posted by knightmeisterLets discuss why NOBODY, not the angels, John the Baptist, the disciples, Mary, apostles, called Jesus Christ, God.
You say you have no discussed the Holy Spirit , well perhaps we should because it's clear jesus discussed it and it is Biblical.
How about we start at a point we can agree on? Jesus said he was to live in us yes?
Is it because they did not know better?
Why?
26 Oct 08
6 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobie======================================
Hi, im back after much thought and deliberation, therefore, in reply to your questions, if i may take them verse by verse, for example:
exodus 6:3 we read,'And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them', - here God Almighty is from the Hebrew. El'Shaddai (a dif h complete certainty that the almighty is mentioned in these particular books! 😀
exodus 6:3 we read,'And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them', - here God Almighty is from the Hebrew. El'Shaddai (a different word from mighty god which is used at Isaiah 9:6) and in the greek Theos'on au'ton and in Latin Deo'omnipotente (omnipotent).
at Zechariah 4:2 we read,'Thus saith the LORD my God; Feed the flock of the slaughter', - this phrase 'the lord my god', from the masoretic text reads Yehwah Elo'hai, literally Jehovah almighty) and from the syrian text we get in greek Kyrios pantokrator, literally “God, Almighty, this last Greek word (pantokrator) being particularly significant.
and finally at Ezeikil chapter ten verse 5 we read, 'And the sound of the cherubims' wings was heard even to the outer court, as the voice of the Almighty God when he speaketh.', - again this phrase almighty god comes from hebrew El'Shaddai, meaning all mighty
so what gives jaywill, i think that we can honestly say with complete certainty that the almighty is mentioned in these particular books!
==========================================
Thanks for your research. My favorite English version, The Recovery Version, has El'Shaddai as All-sufficient God
In your conclusion you say that the almighty is mentioned in those particular books. But the specific question is not simply whether the Almighty is mentioned but -
Is there any reason to think that Jehovah is another God besides the Almighty? Or if you wish in Zechariah is there any reason to assume that Jehovah God is another God besides El'Shaddai?
Afterall, there should only be ONE Jehovah in all the Bible. And there should be only ONE El'Shaddai.
May we safely conclude that wherever we see Jehovah mentioned in Zechariah that this has to be El'Shaddai ?
26 Oct 08
Originally posted by Rajk999Nobody called Jesus Christ, God?
Lets discuss why NOBODY, not the angels, John the Baptist, the disciples, Mary, apostles, called Jesus Christ, God.
Is it because they did not know better?
Why?
"And Thomas answered and said to [Jesus], `My Lord and my God'" (John 20:28, Young's Literal Translation).
26 Oct 08
Originally posted by epiphinehasDid he mean God, the Father of Jesus? No.
Nobody called Jesus Christ, God?
"And Thomas answered and said to [Jesus], `My Lord and my God'" (John 20:28, Young's Literal Translation).
Thats my point. There is no reference to Christ and God being the same entity as youall claim. They are separate.
In the same John 20 we have the following verses :
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
.
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28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
.
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31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
26 Oct 08
Originally posted by Rajk999Thomas is speaking directly to Jesus in verse 28, "...My Lord and my God."
Did he mean God, the Father of Jesus? No.
Thats my point. There is no reference to Christ and God being the same entity as youall claim. They are separate.
In the same John 20 we have the following verses :
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, ...[text shortened]... hat Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
26 Oct 08
2 edits
Excuse me Epi for a moment. In response to Rakj999 -
============================
Did he mean God, the Father of Jesus? No.
Thats my point. There is no reference to Christ and God being the same entity as youall claim. They are separate.
=========================================
How many Gods do you think the Jew Thomas had ?
====================================
In the same John 20 we have the following verses :
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
. =========================================
Precisely. So when some thoughtful Christian scholars and Bible readers considered all, I say ALL of the relevant passages, they came up with a word to discribe this paradox - Trinity.
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I assure you, they knew all the passages. Do you think you noticed a verse that perhaps Athanasius overlooked somehow ?
They wanted to embrace the whole truth. They did not want to trample down one side of the revelation in an attempt to uphold the other side.
This is a test to believers. Are they able to embrace the two-foldedness of the Bible's revelation. Or do they suppress one side and exalt the other.
You are on the test.
===================================
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
.
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31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
==================================
Exactly ! So when these wise brothers saw ALL of the relevant passages, they coined this phrase to describe better the paradox - Triune God.
How shall we describe such a mysterious matter ? One way is with such a word as Trinity.
By the way. Epi is correct not only from John 20. But the Apostle Peter also speaks of "Our God and Savior Jesus Christ" . Yet in another place He speaks of "our God and Father".
Compare First Peter 1:2,3 and Second Peter 1:1.
26 Oct 08
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillno, because as you have already stated, sometimes he is termed something else, for example, 'father of the celestial lights, in the book of James i think, or ' mighty god', as in the verse regarding Jeremiah, chapter 37 i think, however the term 'almighty', is used exclusively for the most high himself, is it not? and why does my text always appear in a bold font?
[b]======================================
exodus 6:3 we read,'And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them', - here God Almighty is from the Hebrew. El'Shaddai (a different word from mighty god which is used at Isaiah 9:6) and in the greek Theos'on au'ton and in Latin De [b]Jehovah mentioned in Zechariah that this has to be El'Shaddai ?[/b]
26 Oct 08
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobie"why does my text always appear in a bold font?"
no, because as you have already stated, sometimes he is termed something else, for example, 'father of the celestial lights, in the book of James i think, or ' mighty god', as in the verse regarding Jeremiah, chapter 37 i think, however the term 'almighty', is used exclusively for the most high himself, is it not? and why does my text always appear in a bold font?
It isn't the most sophisticated text editor. Unclosed bold or italic indicators from the "Originally posted by" box can affect your text. Just edit your text and put the [/b ] or [/i ] first thing.