Originally posted by jaywill
[b]The question was a mathematical one.

You couldn't set it up. Badwater hasn't been able to set it up but only complain that even to try is flawed.

It remains to be seen if it can be done. With the example I gave you probably need variables for:


Time - representing the amount of time you search

Sand - numbers of grains of sands repres ...[text shortened]... l is not the issue. Intuition is not the issue. Badwater, not me, made mathematics the issue.[/b]

We dont have information on all the variables in your silly Sahara sand/diamond example. Neither do we have all the information on whether or not there is life out there. We can still use whatever information we do have to make resonable conclusions .. that is those of us whose minds are open to common sense.

Originally posted by Rajk999
We dont have information on all the variables in your silly Sahara sand/diamond example. Neither do we have all the information on whether or not there is life out there. We can still use whatever information we do have to make resonable conclusions .. that is those of us whose minds are open to common sense.

Hypocrite.

Why don't you scold Badwater for claiming to have a mathematical methodology for determining an earthlike planet's probability of existing amid a billion galaxies ?

Why not tell him about his "silly" proposal that s/he can do the math?

Besides, I am not so sure that there isn't a statistical formula for determining it. Maybe there is one.

I don't know it. I can try though. You and Badwater don't seem to know it.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Well. I give you the rough treatment, you tell me I am too rude.
I treat you nice ... Im gay.
No pleasing some people. 🙂

Didn't say you were gay--I said it sounds gay...which it does.
Most people can be nice without resorting to sarcasm, and they don't have to be shown the proper way to address others in a public forum.

Originally posted by jaywill
Hypocrite.

Why don't you scold Badwater for claiming to have a mathematical methodology for determining an earthlike planet's probability of existing amid a billion galaxies ?

Why not tell him about his "silly" proposal that s/he can do the math?

Besides, I am not so sure that there isn't a statistical formula for determining it. Maybe there is one.

I don't know it. I can try though. You and Badwater don't seem to know it.

The silly proposal is not mine, it is yours. I've already explained the fundamental flaw of your proposition and you continue to ignore it. To want a mathematical calculation and fail to grasp the underlying premise is pointless - if you are not understanding the premise then what would a literal mathematical calculation provide?

When I say "do the math" I'm trying to stress acknowledging the logic and odds involved in the proposition. I'm not saying if you find a diamond in billions of grains of sand then how unique is the diamond; I'm saying what are the odds that this sphere of rock is the only one with life? If there is even a probability of one - just one - other rock that has life amongst billions of galaxies with billions of stars then if you are to believe in God, and that God created life, then God created that life also. It does no good to limit God and have him focus only on us as if we are the do-all and end-all of creation. In the universe that I see and witness, I don't see how God can possibly be limited like that.

Of course, I'm not the one limiting God. You are.

Originally posted by jaywill
...
Besides, I am not so sure that there isn't a statistical formula for determining it. Maybe there is one.

I don't know it. I can try though. You and Badwater don't seem to know it.

This is not about the math, it's about God. You prove to me that God exists and I'll do your calculation. I'm not surprised that you're confusing spirituality with science; after all, you seem to have that problem in the Science forum as well.

Originally posted by Badwater
This is not about the math, it's about God. You prove to me that God exists and I'll do your calculation. I'm not surprised that you're confusing spirituality with science; after all, you seem to have that problem in the Science forum as well.

I'm still waiting for your response to an earlier post. I will reproduce it here for your convenience:
__________

Regardless of whether you believe in a creator God or not, the rules of the universe are pure logic, just like chess.

Do you find quantum mechanics eminently logical?

It may have been necessary to many early Christians but anyone who would choose to - CHOOSE TO - believe that is willingly ignoring God and logic.

Is it possible that there are truths which defy logic? If not, please explain to me how you'd go about proving that something can only be true if it can be proven logically. Would you be able to do so without resorting to circular reasoning?
__________

EDIT: (In case you're wondering, the original post occurs on page 27 of this thread.)

Originally posted by Badwater
The silly proposal is not mine, it is yours. I've already explained the fundamental flaw of your proposition and you continue to ignore it. To want a mathematical calculation and fail to grasp the underlying premise is pointless - if you are not understanding the premise then what would a literal mathematical calculation provide?

When I say "do the math" can possibly be limited like that.

Of course, I'm not the one limiting God. You are.

Badwater, I am afraid that I am going to have to point out that you are not being honest about what you meant by "do the math"

I think you are revizing you comment by trying to make me believe you meant something of a figure of speech when you said "Do the math"

When I carefully examine your paragraph I do not get the impression that you meant "do the math" as kind of slang or figure of speech.

Here is is again broken apart:

======================================

Mathematics: Now that we know the universe is composed of billions of galaxies, and we consider the probability that maybe one - ONE - planet like Earth could exists in that galaxy....well, you're just plain ignoring the odds that we here are actually unique.

Odds are very good we are not. Do the math! It's very simple! I have no problem envisioning a shared universe. Now why that universe should have said creator stare intently on one tiny blue speck of a planet - and put his/her ENTIRE being into that blue speck, one of perhaps billions - well, that doesn't make a lick of sense to me. And don't feed me a surmised line of "Oh, God can be everywhere and do everything!!" Balls.

Either you don't know or can't do that math.

=======================================


1.) The paragraph begins with the heading "Mathematics:"

2.) Then you add "Odds are very good we are not. Do the math! It's very simple!"

3.) After Heading of Mathematics, a request to "Do the math!" plus the suggestion that the math is simple, what do you expect the typical reader to assume you mean ?


Now you seem to doing some fierce backpeddling - "Oh I just meant 'Do the math' as a kind of slang or figure of speech."

How do I know you didn't change your mind when you discovered that you yourself weren't sure how to do the math ... the supposedly simple math ?


4.) You end your little paragraph with this:


"Either you don't know or can't do that math."


I don't think you're being honest.