Originally posted by jaywillI see what you are saying but then that would mean that there would be no obligation to help those in need who were not believers. When we help anyone we believe we are also serving Christ (when I was hungry you fed me). I think he is there in everyone and present with everyone but maybe in a different way than with Christians?
Knightmiester,
You wrote:
[b]==========================================
He has to live in us , otherwise how can he judge us? In order for his judgement to be correct and fair he has to know all our struggles and all our innermost thoughts and feelings. How do you think he knows this? Because he lives in us.
==================================== ...[text shortened]... is reason you give is the best for why Christ has to and wants to live within His saved people.
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Originally posted by knightmeisterThankyou.
I see what you are saying but then that would mean that there would be no obligation to help those in need who were not believers. When we help anyone we believe we are also serving Christ (when I was hungry you fed me). I think he is there in everyone and present with everyone but maybe in a different way than with Christians?
Your reply is based on an understanding that Matthew 25:31-46 is the last judgement.
That is another discussion which sometime we may have fellowship about. Matthew 25:31-46 is a particular judgment for those who are not responsible to God for the gospel of grace preached by Gospel preachers and disciples in the church age.
That is another judgement from the great white throne judgment or the judgment seat of Christ for believers.
That is another discussion for latter.
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Originally posted by jaywilljaywill, i am going to leaving the spiritual forum for a while, i have so many chess games both here and else where that i need to focus on, hopefully you will still be here when i return, it really has been fun, and although i do not still adopt the trinity, it has at least been interesting trying to understand where you guys are coming from, i wish you well - regards Robert!
Now about Christ's second coming physically. Some may argue and say "Don't you think that when Jesus comes again on the clouds there will be a seperation between the indwelling Holy Spirit and the one they see coming?"
What is not often understood is the His coming again is from two directions. As He is coming down He is coming up from within His people. ...[text shortened]... is coming out. He is coming from above and He is coming from within.
This is marvelous.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieOK ... Mr Diplomat...🙂
jaywill, i am going to leaving the spiritual forum for a while, i have so many chess games both here and else where that i need to focus on, hopefully you will still be here when i return, it really has been fun, and although i do not still adopt the trinity, it has at least been interesting trying to understand where you guys are coming from, i wish you well - regards Robert!
Originally posted by jaywillRight. youre going to twist Matt 25 until you get it to mean what you would like it to mean .. just like what you do with the rest of scripture.
Thankyou.
Your reply is based on an understanding that Matthew 25:31-46 is the last judgement.
That is another discussion which sometime we may have fellowship about. Matthew 25:31-46 is a particular judgment for those who are not responsible to God for the gospel of grace preached by Gospel preachers and disciples in the church age.
That is an ...[text shortened]... ent or the judgment seat of Christ for believers.
That is another discussion for latter.
Notice that just about all your beliefs are the result of what MAN has taught subsequent to the time of Christ and Paul, and do not agree with the teachings of the early church.
According to Badwater, you like it slippery. I like some things slippery but my biblical doctrine is not one of those things 😀. Whats worse you guys seem to want everyone else to join you on that slippery slope. NAH .. NO THANK YOU.
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Originally posted by Rajk999If you would like to start a debate with me about Matthew 25:31-46 go ahead.
Right. youre going to twist Matt 25 until you get it to mean what you would like it to mean .. just like what you do with the rest of scripture.
Notice that just about all your beliefs are the result of what MAN has taught subsequent to the time of Christ and Paul, and do not agree with the teachings of the early church.
According to Badwater, you lik ...[text shortened]... rse you guys seem to want everyone else to join you on that slippery slope. NAH .. NO THANK YOU.
Prove to us that Matthew 25:31-46 is the final general judgment of mankind spoken of in Revelation 20.
Go ahead and start a new thread on Matthew 25:31-46 if you're confident that you can identify my twisting of that passage.
Are you going to back up your bluster ?
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Originally posted by epiphinehasWell that's not going to happen with your cries of "I know you are but what am I?"
[b]You want to take shots at the history and logic of what I'm talking about, you go right ahead. But the personal shots are uncalled for.
I didn't intend for that to be a personal shot, as it was an honest question. I simply had the impression that you may not have studied the Bible in any great depth.
So, go ahead, make my ears bleed. Explain to me why Jesus was unnecessary.[/b]
You probably didn't do forensics in high school or college, huh?
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Let me explain what I mean by a slippery slope, that seems to be eluding many here....
When one has an idea of an omnipotent, omnipresent God and you reduce that God to the confines of one particular human (read: Jesus), you ignore not only that great power of a creator, but also some simple mathematics.
Mathematics: Now that we know the universe is composed of billions of galaxies, and we consider the probability that maybe one - ONE - planet like Earth could exists in that galaxy....well, you're just plain ignoring the odds that we here are actually unique. Odds are very good we are not. Do the math! It's very simple! I have no problem envisioning a shared universe. Now why that universe should have said creator stare intently on one tiny blue speck of a planet - and put his/her ENTIRE being into that blue speck, one of perhaps billions - well, that doesn't make a lick of sense to me. And don't feed me a surmised line of "Oh, God can be everywhere and do everything!!" Balls. Either you don't know or can't do that math.
God is nothing if not logical. Regardless of whether you believe in a creator God or not, the rules of the universe are pure logic, just like chess. There is nothing that is not logical. I am flabbergasted that anyone would purport to believe in a God and then suspend the logic that is around them! Ignore the mathematics that is around them! Why should the rules of logic be flippantly dismissed because of what you believe 'God' to be?
When you confine a God to exist in, and as part of, the shell of a human, you are limiting God. That is why Jesus is not God walking on Earth. It is not necessary. It may have been necessary to many early Christians but anyone who would choose to - CHOOSE TO - believe that is willingly ignoring God and logic. They are ignoring the vastness that is God and pushing him/her into a lowly human existence. They are ignoring mathematical probability. They are also ignoring the history of the OT - if that was really God's plan, why didn't he do that with Noah? Rhetorical question, because we all know he did not. So logically it must be surmised that is not part of his/her "plan".
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Originally posted by BadwaterRegardless of whether you believe in a creator God or not, the rules of the universe are pure logic, just like chess.
Let me explain what I mean by a slippery slope, that seems to be eluding many here....
When one has an idea of an omnipotent, omnipresent God and you reduce that God to the confines of one particular human (read: Jesus), you ignore not only that great power of a creator, but also some simple mathematics.
Mathematics: Now that we know the universe is c w he did not. So logically it must be surmised that is not part of his/her "plan".
Do you find quantum mechanics eminently logical?
It may have been necessary to many early Christians but anyone who would choose to - CHOOSE TO - believe that is willingly ignoring God and logic.
Is it possible that there are truths which defy logic? If not, please explain to me how you'd go about proving that something can only be true if it can be proven logically. Would you be able to do so without resorting to circular reasoning?
"Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding" (Proverbs 3:5).
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Originally posted by Badwater=======================================
Let me explain what I mean by a slippery slope, that seems to be eluding many here....
When one has an idea of an omnipotent, omnipresent God and you reduce that God to the confines of one particular human (read: Jesus), you ignore not only that great power of a creator, but also some simple mathematics.
Mathematics: Now that we know the universe is c w he did not. So logically it must be surmised that is not part of his/her "plan".
Mathematics: Now that we know the universe is composed of billions of galaxies, and we consider the probability that maybe one - ONE - planet like Earth could exists in that galaxy....well, you're just plain ignoring the odds that we here are actually unique. Odds are very good we are not. Do the math! It's very simple! I have no problem envisioning a shared universe. Now why that universe should have said creator stare intently on one tiny blue speck of a planet - and put his/her ENTIRE being into that blue speck, one of perhaps billions - well, that doesn't make a lick of sense to me. And don't feed me a surmised line of "Oh, God can be everywhere and do everything!!" Balls. Either you don't know or can't do that math.
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I have a question. Say I am walking long in the Sahara desert amidst billions of grains of sand. I look down and find in the sand a diamond.
It is the first diamond that anyone has every found. How would you set up the math problem to predict the probability that other diamonds will be found in that desert?
What is the formula? Remember, this is not based on the existence of any other known diamonds or known diamond mines. This is the only diamond ever actually found.
What does your math look like to yield the probability of another diamond being found in the Sahara Desert ?
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Originally posted by jaywillGod made one planet with life and sat there staring at it for the last 6000 years. Correct ?
[b]=======================================
Mathematics: Now that we know the universe is composed of billions of galaxies, and we consider the probability that maybe one - ONE - planet like Earth could exists in that galaxy....well, you're just plain ignoring the odds that we here are actually unique. Odds are very good we are not. Do the math! It's very si e to yield the [b] probabilty of another diamond being found in the Sahara Desert ?[/b][/b]
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Originally posted by Rajk999There is really no need to answer my question with a question.
God made one planet with life and sat there staring at it for the last 6000 years. Correct ?
I set up the problem. Just show me your math to predict the probability with the particular problem that I gave you.
We are talking about a diamond, the first found, in the Sahara Desert.
Set up your statistical approach to solving that problem.
Originally posted by jaywillYour analogy is silly.
There is really no need to answer my question with a question.
I set up the problem. Just show me your math to predict the probability with the particular problem that I gave you.
We are talking about a diamond, the first found, in the Sahara Desert.
Set up your statistical approach to solving that problem.
How do you know its the first diamond found. ALso, God did not find anything. He created. The probability that God created only one planet with life is almost zero.