Originally posted by menace71Well its a big difference. The way you said it, means that anyone claiming to be 'born of Christ' is righteous. There is no such thing in the Bible.
ok so I miss spoke a bit but this is what I was alluding to .......the contrast between Adam the natural / flesh and Jesus
Manny
Nobody is automatically rightous. Christ died for the inherited sins of the world .. what the Bible called SINS PAST:
Having accepted Christ and knowing of Christ and the truth, if the Christian continues to sin then there is no more sacrifice for sins. It is a dangerous position to find oneself.
Dont trivialize sin. Dont insult the sacrifice of Christ with false claims of constant forgiveness if one sins. The Bible says no such thing. Churches preach that .. not Christ and the Apostles.
[i]
the word born is not used there ......however Jesus told Nicodemus one must be born again or from above .....Nicodemus had a problem with this statement ...He ask how can one enter the womb a second time ? Jesus was telling this as one must be born again in order to become the new man and how? because the last Adam is a life giving spirit
Manny
I guess this is where you and I will disagree as Jesus sacrifice paid for all sins all time from the foundation of the world until the last day .....this is in no way to trivialize sin ....however it shows the power of the sacrifice ......if one becomes a Christian and continues to blatantly sin then they do not understand at all but that does not mean that a Christian cannot or will not sin in some way after becoming a Christian
Manny
The Righteousness is not from oneself that is impossible ......experience should teach this !! We all sin !! even after knowing the truth and Jesus and the Gospel which is Good news not bad news .....Paul said that He was the chief of sinners and Peter Sinned and Abraham sinned ......all have sinned even those who God calls righteous .....God imputed righteousness to these people ....
Manny
Romans 3
Justification by Faith
21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27 Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.
Manny
Originally posted by menace71We will disagree because the Bible said no such thing... again you misquote the Bible. That is the prime cause of false doctrines.
.. Jesus sacrifice paid for all sins all time from the foundation of the world until the last day
Show me where the Bible says that [above] and I will show you the truth in the Bible.
Christ died for sins that are past:
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. (Rom 3:23-26)
Christ did not die for the Christian that continues to sin over and over again:
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (Heb 10:26-29)
See ... it is a grave insult to the cross of Christ to even believe as you do Manny .. be warned.
Romans 4New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Justification by Faith Evidenced in Old Testament
4 What then shall we say that Abraham, [a]our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2 For if Abraham was justified [b]by works, he has something to boast about, but not [c]before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven,
And whose sins have been covered.
8 “Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.”
Manny
I give you scripture and you deny it ......I think you lump all Christians together as thinking the grace of God is cheap I never said it was cheap ..... when Jesus paid the price for sin how many people yet future would become Christians ? who knows but myriads upon myriads and How did the ancients sins get paid for ? God had this plan for the redemption of man from the foundation of the world
Manny
Originally posted by Rajk999Ephesians 1:3-5 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
We will disagree because the Bible said no such thing... again you misquote the Bible. That is the prime cause of false doctrines.
Show me where the Bible says that [above] and I will show you the truth in the Bible.
Christ died for sins that are past:
[i]For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace th ...[text shortened]... ee ... it is a grave insult to the cross of Christ to even believe as you do Manny .. be warned.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before [a]Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
Originally posted by menace71I caught you misquoting the Bible twice.:
Romans 4New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Justification by Faith Evidenced in Old Testament
4 What then shall we say that Abraham, [a]our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2 For if Abraham was justified [b]by works, he has something to boast about, but not [c]before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was c ...[text shortened]... aid for ? God had this plan for the redemption of man from the foundation of the world
Manny
1. born of the second Adam
2. Jesus sacrifice paid for all sins all time from the foundation of the world until the last day
Neither is in the Bible, neither is even implied indirectly in the Bible.
Both are fatal misinterpretations.
I suggest you read the whole story of Christ and the Apostles carefully without relying on churches and pastors to tell you what to believe.
From when ? from actually before the foundation of the world ......so God had it in mind from before the foundation of the world to choose some ......Your splitting hairs really ......as the sacrifice covers all sins all time at least in the sense that it pays for the sins committed through out all time .....this does not mean all will be saved .....there are many who spit at the sacrifice of God
Manny
I think you are overly legalistic .....a modern pharisee that is all .....you have so much fear of God ( which a healthy fear is good and right ) that you have no joy and choose to squash others joy also ......I mean no disrespect to you personally but don't assume all take the grace of God lightly ........yes were in the age of cheap grace and church but the real is still here
Manny
Originally posted by menace71You are an insult to Jesus Christ and his sacrifice, according to Paul.
From when ? from actually before the foundation of the world ......so God had it in mind from before the foundation of the world to choose some ......Your splitting hairs really ......as the sacrifice covers all sins all time at least in the sense that it pays for the sins committed through out all time .....this does not mean all will be saved .....there are many who spit at the sacrifice of God
Manny
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Heb 6:4-6)
According to Paul people like you that preach that sin is ok and Christ died for all your sins is putting Christ to shame. Christ died so that his believers would live righteously instead of boasting that they are sinners.
Originally posted by menace71I squash your joy .. then that is an admission that you enjoy your sinful lifestyle .. clearly you want to remain in your ignorance and continue on living that way.
I think you are overly legalistic .....a modern pharisee that is all .....you have so much fear of God ( which a healthy fear is good and right ) that you have no joy and choose to squash others joy also ......I mean no disrespect to you personally but don't assume all take the grace of God lightly ........yes were in the age of cheap grace and church but the real is still here
Manny
And I have no joy? You know nothing about my personal life. It is obvious you are a very bitter Christian.,, maybe like the type close to the end of your days, and now realising that their pastors were wrong about continuing to sin and all would be ok !!
No I never said sin was ok .........where did I say sin was ok ? LOL I said you try to squash people's joy in believing in Jesus .....once again if we could live a perfect life then why Jesus ? why did Jesus hang from a cross ? it would be pointless if we could live a perfect life while in these crummy fleshly bodies ......the Old testament Law would have sufficed in making us perfect .....You call God a liar by believing you can live a perfect sinless life ....
Manny