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05 May 16
Mainly, I will talk about the speaking of Jesus after His resurrection. Some quarters are pushing a heresy that only what Jesus said "while walking on earth" or before His crucifixion are the only things Christians need to pay attention to.
To understand some post resurrection words of Jesus though, it will be necessary to refer to things taught by Him or others before His death and resurrection.
The first post resurrection thing taught by Jesus would be His confirming to the disenchanted and disheartened disciples that His death and rising was the prophecy of their Hebrew Scriptures.
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05 May 16
Two disciples were going down to Emmaus, a village and Jesus concealing somehow His identity joined them.
"And while they were talking and discussing, Jesus Himself drew near and went with them. But their eyes were kept from recognizing Him,
And He said to them, What are these words which you are exchanging with one another while you are walking? and they stood still, looking sad." (Luke 24:15-17)
As far as they were concerned the whole affair was over. The One they had put so much hope in had been arrested by a mob, put into a few kangaroo courts, and condemned to be executed. They believed that Jesus of Nazareth was dead and everything concerning His life was totally lost.
They didn't show some stiff upper lip that they were going to do their best to make something out of His teaching anyway. It was all over. They weren't like the modernist who sentimentally hope to beat a truly dead horse.
"And one of them, Cleopas by name, ..."
I believe that this Cleopas helped Luke write his gospel. I do not know. But Luke did journalistic research on these the biography of Jesus. I would not be surprised of the man named by Luke had given Luke a personal testimonial of his and another disciples encounter with Jesus after His resurrection.
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05 May 16
" And one of them, Cleopas by name, answered and said to Him, Do You alone dwell as a stranger in Jerusalem and not know the things which have taken place in these days?
And He said to them, What things? And they said to Him, The things concerning Jesus the Nazarene, who was a Prophet powerful in work and word before God and all the people;
And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered Him up to the sentence of death and crucified Him.
But we were hoping that He was the One who was about to redeem Israel. Indeed , besides all these things, it is now going on the third day since these things took place.
But moreover some women from among us amazed us. Being at the tomb early and not finding His body, they came saying that they had also seen a vision of angels, who said that He is living." (Luke 24:18-23)
They were still sad. Though they heard some strange things on the third day, they were still depressed. They were skeptical. Perhaps they thought that they were "realists". Women could not be trusted. Something must be wrong. They clung to their dipression.
In this circumstance Jesus in resurrection, with His feet still "walking on earth" began to teach them. He concealed His physical identity from them. He instead delivered to them the word of God to infuse first their hearts with faith.
This is in the following verses below.
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After His resurrection, Jesus, somehow concealing from the dejected two disciples His physical identity, explained -
" And He said to them, O foolish and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! (v. 25)
.Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and enter into His glory? (v.26)
And beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, He explained to them clearly in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself. (v.27)
And they drew near to the village where they were going, and He acted as though He would go farther. (v.28)
He taught that His resurrection was predicted by the Hebrew prophets.
He taught that from Moses and all the Old Testament prophets His resurrection was foretold.
He taught them that for Jesus to enter into His glory His resurrection was necessary.
This includes the meaning that His resurrection was a crucial part of His vindication.
Without His resurrection from the dead Jesus Christ is left un-vindicated.
In other words without His resurrection His person and teaching do not have the seal of God's approval or His own victory over sin and death.
Also without His resurrection He cannot impart Himself into man as the Spirit of life, the "another Comforter" - the Holy Spirit. Paul, writing about resurrection says that Christ became a divine life imparting Spirit.
" the last Adam became a life giving Spirit " (1 Cor. 15:45)
Jesus taught before His death that it was expedient for Him to GO and to COME again. That is to go to the cross and come again in resurrection and impart His divine life into His followers.
" But now I am going to Him who sent Me; and none of you asks Me, Where are You going ? But because I have spoken these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart.
But I tell you the truth, It is EXPEDIENT for you that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
And when He comes, He will convict the world concerning sin and concerning righteuosness and concerning judgment ..." (John 16:5-8)
It is expedient that Jesus Christ be not only physically among the disciples, but after resurrection coming INTO them to blend Himself with them. That is to incorporate Himself with them. That is to be planted in them as a seed of eternal life and grow and spread throughout their whole being.
This coming into them was a part of His being glorified and vindicated as the truth.
" And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, the He may be with you forever, Even the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not known Him; but you know Him,
BECAUSE HE ABIDES WITH YOU AND SHALL BE IN YOU.
I WILL NOT LEAVE YOU AS ORPHANS; I AM COMING TO YOU." (John 14:16-18)
He will SEND the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is Himself in another form.
When He sends the "another Comforter" the "Spirit of truth [or reality]" it is Himself coming to them.
He was WITH them. After His death and resurrection He will be IN them as the "another Comforter" to be with them for eternity.
" And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may be with you forever." (v.16)
The Spirit of reality is not on loan for a temporary time. He will be with the disciples "FOREVER". And His coming is the coming of Jesus in another form, not leaving them as forsaken orphans, but coming to them.
"I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you."
This verse is not limited to the second coming of Christ physically at the end of the age. The Gospel writer John makes it very clear that this was the coming of Jesus to INDWELL the believers, to live in them. That is to impart Himself into them for the growth of God's eternal life within their natural created lives.
05 May 16
Originally posted by sonshipWho are these people:
After His resurrection, Jesus, somehow concealing from the dejected two disciples His physical identity, explained -
[quote] " And He said to them, O foolish and slow of heart [b] to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! (v. 25)
.Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and enter into His glory? (v.26)
And beginning ...[text shortened]... mpart Himself into them for the growth of God's eternal life within their natural created lives.
1. Disciples of Christ
2. Believers in Christ
3. Lovers of Christ.
with whom Christ will be with and not leave them as orphans?
Who are these?
I know what your definition is and it is WRONG. You believe that anyone who professes their faith with their mouth is a disciple.
Christ disagrees.:
Disciples of Christ :
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. (John 8:31-32 KJV)
Disciples of Christ are thsoe who continue in his words.
In dont need to quote more. Believers are those who believe in his words. Lovers of Christ are those who follow his commandments.
Disciples, believers, lovers are those who follow Christ's teachings and IT IS THESE PEOPLE WHO CHIRST WILL SEND THE COMFORTER FOR AND WHO CHRIST WILL BE WITH.
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In John's Gospel, the Evangelists quite purposely records Jesus telling the disciples to "Receive the Holy Spirit". The transition from Jesus being only AMONG them to Jesus being IN them occurs after His resurrection when He comes to comfort them and to do a symbolic act of breathing His life into them.
After the resurrection:
"When therefore it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and while the doors were shut where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst and said to them, Peace be to you." (John 20:19)
This we could consider the first COMFORTING of the disciples. He appeared to them in spite of the closed doors and comforted them by telling them "Peace be to you."
"And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. The disciples therefore rejoiced at seeing the Lord." (v.20)
Imperical, scientific proof was offered that He was the same Jesus who had been nailed to a cross and pierced through the side with a spear. This was more than Jesus "coming back" to life. This was Him coming back to life yet ALSO entering into a whole new realm, a new dimension of a glorified Man able to enter at will any locked room in a supernatural manner.
"Then Jesus said to them again, Peace be with you, as the Father has sent me, I also send you.
And when He had said this, He breathed into them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit." (v.22)
John is very purposeful in recording this. In His repeated blessing of comfort that Peace should be with them, He then breathed into them and told them to receive the Holy Spirit that He had promised to send.
He didn't say "Figure out the Holy Spirit". He said "Receive the Holy Spirit.". He imparted His breath into them. I think this was symbolic. What God did at that time was impart the life of Jesus in the form of the Spirit of truth into their innermost spiritual being.
This now is critical teaching after the resurrection of Jesus.
This is now crucial teaching while Jesus "walked on earth" on the very same evening as the day He rose from the dead. That was "the first day of the week".
That morning He had taught Mary Magdalene who was honored to be the first human being to witness Christ in His resurrected state as far as we know. (John 20:14-18)
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If anyone attempts to teach that this Holy Spirit received by the 11 disciples was not received by other disciples of Jesus, don't listen to such idiocy.
The Apostle Paul informs the church in Corinth that all the participants in the church life have the Holy Spirit. Corinth as you may know, was the city of a local church which had its share of problems. Not every Christian in Corinth was an overcoming and victorious disciples. Paul scolded some of them as being carnal or natural. But they had the Holy Spirit.
"Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you." (1 Cor. 3:16)
This is spoken to the whole local church as a corporate vessel. He is saying that collectively they are together the practical and local temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in them.
But not only as a collective, but as individuals also the Apostle informs the Corinthian assembling Christians that their bodies are individually temples of the Holy Spirit.
" Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? " (1 Cor. 6:29)
Collectively - the church in Corinth was a temple of the Holy Spirit. I don't think any of those Corinthians were in the closed room where Jesus told the 11 to "Receive the Holy Spirit".
Individually - Each disciple of Jesus had a body which Paul warned was a temple of the Holy Spirit "within you".
Of course the Holy Spirit was within these believers - both the mature and the not too mature. Both the spiritual ones and the ones Paul said were still living a fleshly life thought they were Christians. Both were individually united in their human spirit with the capital S Holy Spirit.
"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17)
Part of their being was God.
Part of their being was Jesus Christ.
Part of their being was the very God, JOINED to their spiritual part and made "one spirit" with them.
It is true also of anyone who receives Jesus into their heart, inviting Christ to come to be their Lord and Savior.
05 May 16
Originally posted by sonshipI see you quote this:
If anyone attempts to teach that this Holy Spirit received by the 11 disciples was not received by other disciples of Jesus, don't listen to such idiocy.
The Apostle Paul informs the church in Corinth that all the participants in the church life have the Holy Spirit. [b]Corinth as you may know, was the city of a local church which had its share of p ...[text shortened]... anyone who receives Jesus into their heart, inviting Christ to come to be their Lord and Savior.[/b]
" Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? " (1 Cor. 6:29)
But then you ignore the very next verse, because it conficts with you screwed up nonsense doctrine .. here is the next verse:
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
(1 Corinthians 3:16-17 KJV)
The words of the Bible are very clear.
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Originally posted by divegeesterInput is welcome. Preaching is also welcome.
Are you preaching, or is there opportunity to input?
What I do not intend to do is re-argue with Rajk999 about OSAS.
Nor do I intend to read carefully posts from someone who says he won't read mine.
I do not intend to re-argue with those who like to steer every Christian discussion to be about being tortured forever.
But input concerning Jesus words especially after His resurrection I will pay special attention to as I teach and preach.
So you've had your little innuendo. What is now your constructive input about the subject of Jesus' Teaching After Resurrection ? I am all ears.
( I may be away from the Forum for the weekend 5/6 - 5/7 )
Originally posted by sonshipAfter the resurrection this is the last command of Jesus Christ:
Input is welcome. Preaching is also welcome.
What I do not intend to do is re-argue with Rajk999 about OSAS.
Nor do I intend to read carefully posts from someone who says he won't read mine.
I do not intend to re-argue with those who like to steer every Christian discussion to be about being tortured forever.
But input concerning Jesus words espec ...[text shortened]... surrection ? I am all ears.
( I may be away from the Forum for the weekend 5/6 - 5/7 )[/b]
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20 KJV)
Did you read that Sonship?
TEACH PEOPLE TO OBSERVE THE COMMANDMENTS OF JESUS CHRIST.
Something a proclaimed Christian like you continues to fail miserably to do.
You are a hopeless failure and a fraud.
06 May 16
Originally posted by Rajk999
After the resurrection this is the last command of Jesus Christ:
[i]Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [b]Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20 KJV)[/ ...[text shortened]... Christian like you continues to fail miserably to do.
You are a hopeless failure and a fraud.[/b]
You are a hopeless failure and a fraud.
What words from a follower of Jesus.
06 May 16
Originally posted by yoctobyteFollowers of Jesus are supposed to lack the ability to recognize frauds?You are a hopeless failure and a fraud.
What words from a follower of Jesus.
If you lack that ability then that is your failing as a Christian.
Maybe you should sit this one out and learn from the sidelines.
Originally posted by sonshipBut haven't you asserted that 'being tortured forever' for lack of belief is the "ultimate morality" and "perfect justice", so in terms of morality and justice, doesn't 'being tortured forever' lie at the very core of your belief system. What does it matter what Jesus' followers happen to claim He said before or after he died if the the very core of your belief system is incoherent and morally depraved? 🙂
I do not intend to re-argue with those who like to steer every Christian discussion to be about being tortured forever.