1. R
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    06 May '16 16:01
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I cannot allow you to wallow in ignorance. So I showed you what Jesus meant by that passage. But I know you dont accept that because then you would have no supporting reference from Christ about my words.
    You sir are so annoying, you have become irrelevant. You certainly are not serving the Lord Jesus Christ. You sound more like a raving mad lunatic. I will just ignore anything you post from here on.
  2. R
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    06 May '16 16:07
    Originally posted by sonship
    In John's Gospel, the Evangelists quite purposely records Jesus telling the disciples to [b]"Receive the Holy Spirit". The transition from Jesus being only AMONG them to Jesus being IN them occurs after His resurrection when He comes to comfort them and to do a symbolic act of breathing His life into them.

    After the resurrection:

    [quote] "Wh ...[text shortened]... man being to witness Christ in His resurrected state as far as we know. [b] (John 20:14-18) [/b]
    There is a huge difference between being baptized in water and being baptized in holy spirit. Baptism in water is symbolic. It does not mean the person is saved. Many people go through the motions of being immersed in water and never have the true faith in Jesus that gets them saved. It is well known that many people who have been water baptized never gave their life to Christ or had faith in Christ to the point of salvation. People such as those are baptized in water, but it does not result in “union with Jesus Christ.” Baptism in holy spirit is totally different. It is not a ceremony or ritual, and it is not done by people. Only Jesus can baptize a person in the holy spirit, and he only does so when that person has true faith in him. A person who is baptized in the gift of holy spirit does not just participate in a ceremony that represents going from death to life; the person actually passes from everlasting death unto everlasting life. A person baptized in holy spirit is truly baptized “into union with Jesus Christ.” When a person is baptized in holy spirit, he is no longer the same person. He is saved and has spiritual power. 1 Corinthians 12:13 says that Christians are baptized in holy spirit, and it is that baptism, not water baptism, that brings us into union with Jesus Christ such that when he was crucified, we were crucified, when he died, we died, when he was buried, we were buried, and when he was raised from the dead we were guaranteed new resurrection life.

    http://www.revisedenglishversion.com/commentary/Romans/6
  3. PenTesting
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    06 May '16 16:15
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    You sir are so annoying, you have become irrelevant. You certainly are not serving the Lord Jesus Christ. You sound more like a raving mad lunatic. I will just ignore anything you post from here on.
    Was I addressing you ?
  4. Joined
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    07 May '16 00:453 edits
    Originally posted by yoctobyte
    As I said... I have contributed to getting off topic, not my intent. My comment to him was more about what I see as how he treats/talks to others (history), and things he has said to me, it does not relate to this thread.

    I do not like when grown men resort to name calling when disagreeing, it's childish... so I will call it out. If someone gets it... great! If not... ok.

    We can always agree to disagree.
    I do not like when grown men resort to name calling when disagreeing, it's childish... so I will call it out.

    You keep changing your story. If you had said this from the git go, I wouldn't have responded.

    But first you responded with this which does pass judgment on rajk999 with this:
    "What words from a follower of Jesus."

    And I called you on it.

    Then you pointed your finger at him with this:
    "Be careful who you point your finger at because you have three pointing back! "

    And I called you on it.

    Now you're trying to pretend that your comment wasn't related to this thread even though you responded to something specific that he wrote on this thread.

    Why don't you just admit your hypocrisy? Especially in light of the following which you've subsequently posted:
    "sir, you are neither a gentleman nor a scholar"

    Isn't this resorting to the same name calling which you felt compelled to call out rajk999 for ?

    Are you going to call out checkbaiter for this?:
    "You sir are so annoying, you have become irrelevant. You certainly are not serving the Lord Jesus Christ. You sound more like a raving mad lunatic. I will just ignore anything you post from here on."

    Are you going to say the following to CB as you did rajk999?:
    "What words from a follower of Jesus."
  5. PenTesting
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    07 May '16 00:57
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    [b]I do not like when grown men resort to name calling when disagreeing, it's childish... so I will call it out.

    You keep changing your story. If you had said this from the git go, I wouldn't have responded.

    But first you responded with this which does pass judgment on rajk999 with this:
    "What words from a follower of Jesus."

    And I called yo ...[text shortened]... ything you post from here on."

    Are you going to say?:
    "What words from a follower of Jesus."[/b]
    Checkbaiter in another thread a few days ago called a fool. Yoctobye ignored that.
    But .. I can handle it 😀
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    07 May '16 01:051 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Checkbaiter in another thread a few days ago called a fool. Yoctobye ignored that.
    But .. I can handle it 😀
    Oh, I know you can.

    It's remarkable how so many Christians seem to hate the light of truth. Especially when it's pointed at their dogma or them. I wonder how much of it stems from simplistic Sunday School lessons that they never outgrew.
  7. PenTesting
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    07 May '16 21:08
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Oh, I know you can.

    It's remarkable how so many Christians seem to hate the light of truth. Especially when it's pointed at their dogma or them. I wonder how much of it stems from simplistic Sunday School lessons that they never outgrew.
    Well Jesus had the answer to why men hate the light of truth .. because they love darkness and because their deeds are evil. Nobody wants to hear that they need to change their lifestyle. I would guess that the ones that protest the most against us repeating the doctrine of Jesus, are the ones with the most to lose if we are right. Their conscience bothers them ... the sonship and checkbaiter types.

    Josephw has said that it is only when they are saved it is then that they are obedient to God and Christ. It is like telling God that only when you guarantee me eternal life, then will I live righteously otherwise I will continue to sin. I dont know what kind of Christian these people are but they seem very shady and crooked.

    Sunday school ? I wont blame that at all. Every teenager and young adult brought up in some kind of Christian environment makes life changing decisions when they mature. Some become atheists and those who stay in the church gravitate to a doctrine that suits them. The lazy worldly Christian would lean towards a church that them that they are saved and nothing else is required, and eternal life is guaranteed. This type in particular would be afraid to read the Bible for themselves lest they discover the truth that this doctrine is false. Smarter ones would know in their heart that it is wrong a move away from such a church.
  8. R
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    09 May '16 15:0014 edits
    The Christians in the church in Corinth had the Holy Spirit and had Him FOREVER just as Jesus had promised in John 14:16.

    Now if someone (like Rajk999) points out that the possessor of the Holy Spirit, God says He will destroy as in (1 Cor. 3:17) there is no reason to believe the promise of John 14:16 God has reneged on, as if God could lie.

    in the very same epistle the Apostle tells of a disobedient Christian in the church there who was living in abject fornication. Paul says that he must be disciplined. God will bring his fleshly living to destruction that his innermost being, his spirit may be saved.

    "It is actually reported that there is fornication among you, and such fornication that does not even occur among the Gentiles, that someone has his stepmother. (v.1)

    ... the one who has done this deed might be removed from your midst. (v.2b)

    In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you and my spirit have been assembled, with the power of our Lord Jesus, (v.4)

    To deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord." (v.5)


    This Christian brother was set to undergo some serious discipline by God. He was removed from the fellowship of the church and "delivered to Satan".

    We do not have to know all the details. What is sufficient to know is that he was set to undergo destruction - "the destruction of the flesh". Yet this disciple did not remover from him the Holy Spirit or his gift of eternal salvation. A part of him would undergo destruction but he is not eternally lost.

    "To deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, THAT ... his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord." (v.5)


    Based upon this same principle of salvation with discipline, we should understand the following in chapter 3.

    "Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you. If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for the temple of God is holy, and such are you."


    1.) It is possible to have the Holy Spirit forever and receive severe discipline.

    2.) It is possible to have the Holy Spirit forever and yet be saved yet as through some strong discipline just before the kingdom age.

    "If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so through fire.

    Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

    If anyone destroys the temple God, God will destroy him. "


    3. Nothing unholy will go into the building of the local church (or the church universal either for that matter). .

    The phrase "saved, yet so as through fire" (v.15) corresponds closely to the experience of the fleshly Christian of whom Paul said " ... deliver such a one ... for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord." (5:5)

    The promise of Jesus to impart the Holy Spirit into His believers "forever" is of course upheld.
  9. PenTesting
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    09 May '16 16:06
    Originally posted by sonship
    The Christians in the church in Corinth had the Holy Spirit and had Him FOREVER just as Jesus had promised in [b]John 14:16.

    Now if someone (like Rajk999) points out that the possessor of the Holy Spirit, God says He will destroy as in (1 Cor. 3:17) there is no reason to believe the promise of John 14:16 God has reneged on, as if God could lie. ...[/b]
    You are really among the biggest liars and deceivers that I have ever had the misfortune to come across. The promise of God in John 14:16 are for those who follow the commandments of Jesus:

    If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; (John 14:15-16 KJV)

    IF you love Christ and keep his commandments THEN God will send the Comforter.
  10. R
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    09 May '16 17:002 edits
    In the letter to the church in Corinth, a certain brother had a fornicating affair with his stepmother. Can we say he did or did not love Jesus.?

    You all judge. One thing is sure. For a certain amount of time he loved his sinful life style more. And Paul exhorted that he be removed from the congregation and undergo destruction of the flesh that his spirit might be saved.

    Do you know Who was one with his spirit ? The Lord Jesus Christ was with his spirit.

    "He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17)


    So regardless of the protestations of Rajk999, this backslider's regenerated spirit was made "one spirit" with the Holy Spirit. While he was being disciplined he was still possession of the Holy Spirit Who was "one spirit" with his own spirit.

    The good news was that we see that this brother repented and was able against to meet with the church in Corinth. In the Second Corinthian letter we see that he repented and was sorrowful for his sinful living. The church forgave him as Paul had and the disciplined Christian was restored.

    "Sufficient for such a one is this punishment by the majority. So that on the contrary you should rather forgive and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one be swallowed up with excessive sorrow.

    Therefore I exhort you to confirm your love toward him. For to this end also I wrote, that I might know your approvedness, whether you are obedient in all things.

    But whom you forgive anything, I also forgive; for also what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, it is in the person of Christ ..." (2 Cor. 2:6-10)


    The offending brothers was recovered from the discipline and restored to the church in Corinth.

    At no time was he ever without the Holy Spirit which Jesus promised would be with the disciples "forever".. Though we see that there was a serious lapse in his consecration of Christ, through the discipline he still was joined to Christ and had the Holy Spirit with him then and "forever".
  11. PenTesting
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    09 May '16 17:371 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    In the letter to the church in Corinth, a certain brother had a fornicating affair with his stepmother. Can we say he did or did not love Jesus.?

    You all judge. One thing is sure. For a certain amount of time he loved his sinful life style more. And Paul exhorted that he be removed from the congregation and undergo destruction of the flesh that his spir ...[text shortened]... ipline he still was joined to Christ and had the Holy Spirit with him then and [b]"forever"
    .[/b]
    People should forgive people for their offences. Thats about all that I am in agreement with. Paul is not in a position to act on behalf of God and forgive people for their sins and neither are you.

    You are mistaken about the nature of the Comforter. Here is what Jesus said:

    If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

    Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

    He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

    .. If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

    He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

    But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (John 14:15-26 KJV)


    So to summarise, Jesus said:

    1. Those who love him and keep his commandments, the Comforter or Holy Spirit will be with THOSE PEOPLE
    2. Those who love Christ and keep his commandments Jesus will manifest himself unto him
    3. Those who love Christ and keep his commandments Jesus and God will make their abode with him
    4. The Comforter / Holy Spirit will remind the disciples of the commandments of Christ.


    So according to YOU SONSHIP a disciple committed adultery with his step mother and this man had the Holy Spirit in him ..? Did Paul say that or is that your personal opinion?
  12. R
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    09 May '16 21:571 edit
    Rajk999's various complaints.

    I do not intend to engage this heretic constantly. But for seekers who would like replies to these complaints:

    People should forgive people for their offences. Thats about all that I am in agreement with. Paul is not in a position to act on behalf of God and forgive people for their sins and neither are you.


    When it comes to eternal redemption, no man but God only is in the position to grant forgiveness.

    But the apostles are involved in the forgiveness that restores a erring believer from the fellowship of the church. And here's the proof. On the evening of His resurrection when He breathed into the disciples the Holy Spirit, He ordained them also to forgive people in this horizontal and fellowshipping sense.

    "And when He had said this, He breathed into them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit.

    Whosoever sins you forgive, they are forgiven them; and whosoever sins you retain, they are retained." (John 20:22,23)


    The kind of forgiveness mentioned here is that same restoring forgiveness towards the backslidden brother in the church in Corinth. The church and Paul the Apostle forgave and restored this one to fellowship of the Body of Christ.

    Note also that even when he fell out of favor with the church and the Apostle Paul, he still was going to be saved.

    " To deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be SAVED ... in the day of the Lord Jesus." (1 Cor. 5:4,5)


    In terms of eternity this disciplined brother still had the Holy Spirit and was still to be saved though he was to suffer some destruction.

    He was quarantined from horizontal fellowship with the local church. This had nothing to do with his eternal redemption or his possessing the Holy Spirit.


    You are mistaken about the nature of the Comforter. Here is what Jesus said:

    If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;


    There are two clauses in this passage. The first involves the normal love of Jesus and keeping His commandments. The second involves the sending of the Holy Spirit to be with the disciples forever.


    Of course much love will lead to more saturation of the personality with the Holy Spirit.
    Less love or immature loving will restrict the influence of the Holy Spirit. But whether the believer loves little, loves more, loves much, and is growing always in love, the Holy Spirit is sent to them REGARDLESS and that "FOREVER".

    Of course the Lord Jesus wants the believers to GROW and "INCREASE" in love towards Him and towards other members of His church.

    " And the Lord cause you to INCREASE and abound in love to one another and to all, just as we also to you ..." (1 Thess. 3:12)


    See also growth in other aspects of the Christian life ( Eph. 4:15; 1 Pet. 2:2; 2 Pet. 3:18; Eph. 2:21; 2 Thess. 1:3 ).

    The heretic wants to make spiritual love a binary matter as if one has it or does not.
    A more realistic and biblical view is that love for God is meant to GROW as Christ grows within.


    He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.


    The heretic wants also to make this a binary matter. Either you love and obey or you do not. A more biblical and realistic view is that the believer should grow in deeper love and deeper obedience.

    " But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and unto the day of eternity. Amen." (2 Peter 3:18)


    The disciplined Christian in Corinth needed to GROW in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ, just as the apostolic command states. Every born again person who has the Holy Spirit "forever" should be growing in the love and knowledge of Jesus Christ.

    The heretic's desire to bring all Christians into legal bondage to uncertainty of having the Holy Spirit fails as usual.
  13. R
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    09 May '16 22:283 edits
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    So to summarise, Jesus said:

    1. Those who love him and keep his commandments, the Comforter or Holy Spirit will be with THOSE PEOPLE


    This heretic never graduates from the matter of the assurance of salvation.
    He has one subject, the railing against the assurance of eternal life and eternal redemption.

    It is a sad thing. Having to re-argue this is an unpleasant matter.

    The Holy Spirit is a SEAL and a PLEDGE of God's guarantee that the process He has started in the believer, HE WILL complete.

    " ... in Him also believing, you were SEALED with the Holy Spirit of the promise, Who is the PLEDGE of our inheritance unto the redemption of the acquired possession, to the praise of His glory." (Eph. 1:13c.14)


    The given Holy Spirit is the therefore the seal showing the universe that this one belongs to God. The quarantined Christian in Corinth was SEALED with this Holy Spirit while he was under discipline. He also had this Holy Spirit as a pledge even while some destruction was working over him in a disciplinary way.

    Where he failed was in grieving the Holy Spirit within him through his fornication.

    "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit, in whom you were SEALED unto the day of redemption." ( Eph. 4:20)


    Are they sealed only unto the day they disobey the Holy Spirit? No, they are sealed " unto the day of redemption." That means the transfiguration of their bodies in resurrection and/or rapture. It is UNTO that day they are sealed.

    Notice it is not a matter of making the Holy Spirit angry. Rather it is a matter of making Him GRIEVE in disappointment. He is being limited and stifled through disobedience to the Lord. But He is still the SEAL and the PLEDGE. For the work God has begun He will complete even if He be temporarily frustrated.

    "Being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun in you a good work will complete it until the day of Christ Jesus." (Philippians 1:6)


    Rajk999 may not be confident. But Paul was confident that God who started in the believers a good transformation work and gave to them the Holy Spirit as a seal and pledge, will complete His work unto the day of Christ Jesus.

    Jesus has given the believers the Holy Spirit as a seal and pledge.

    "But the One who firmly attaches us with you unto Christ and has anounted us is God,

    He who has also sealed us and given the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge." (2 Cor. 1:21,22)



    2. Those who love Christ and keep his commandments Jesus will manifest himself unto him


    This has nothing to do with God withdrawing the Holy Spirit from the saved one as a SEAL and a PLEDGE.

    A man with the seal of the Holy Spirit can still undergo some discipline from God.
    A man with the pledge of the Holy Spirit may still grieve the Spirit and also be under some discipline of God.


    3. Those who love Christ and keep his commandments Jesus and God will make their abode with him


    This has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit not being with the believers forever.


    4. The Comforter / Holy Spirit will remind the disciples of the commandments of Christ.


    This also has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit as the PLEDGE and the SEAL not being with the believers forever.
  14. R
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    10 May '16 02:33
    Jesus teaching after His resurrection includes His instructions in the book of Acts.

    "And as He met together with them, He charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, He said, You heard from Me;

    For John baptized with water, but you shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days from now." ( Acts 1:4,5)


    I use to be confused about when the disciples received the Holy Spirit. Was John saying something contradictory to Luke ? John's Gospel has the Lord tell the disciples to "Receive the Holy Spirit" in the evening of His resurrection in chapter 20. But Luke says the Holy Spirit came to the disciples on the day of Pentecost.

    There is no contradiction.

    In John the disciples received the Holy Spirit for new life and regeneration.
    This was the fulfillment of Christ's promise in John chapters 14 - 16.

    The Holy Spirit coming on the disciples as a mighty rushing wind on Pentecost was for the power to work. The former was much more inward for new life. The latter was for equipping with power.

    The former in John 20 was the Lord keeping His promise in chapters 14 - 16.
    The latter was "the promise of the Father" to cloth the disciples with power to testify.

    This was two aspects of the same Person - the Holy Spirit as the Third of the Trinity.
    The Christians need rebirth and a new life as divine seed.
    The Christians also need the outward clothing of the power to work for the testimony of Christ.

    There is no contradiction in the New Testament about the Holy Spirit coming to the disciples. There are only two aspects of the function of the Holy Spirit.
    One for new life, inward rebirth John 20.
    The other is for clothing as a uniform or equipping with power to testify(Acts 2).
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    10 May '16 07:52
    Originally posted by sonship
    Jesus teaching after His resurrection includes His instructions in the book of [b]Acts.

    [quote] "And as He met together with them, He charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, He said, You heard from Me;

    For John baptized with water, but you shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many ...[text shortened]...
    .
    The other is for clothing as a uniform or equipping with power to testify(Acts 2).[/b]
    Because the doctrine of the trinity is error, you using it as a cornerstone throughout your blog undermines any truth that may be contained within it.
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