Originally posted by @fmfChristianity is a Jewish sect is it not?
"Messianic Judaism" is a label that a certain sect of believers in Christ use. They are not members of the Jewish faith. This thread is surely not about ethnic Jews or people who happen to have the words "Jew" or "Judaism" in the title they use for themselves. It is surely about Jews - as in - adherents of Judaism, yes?
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Originally posted by @eladarChristianity and Judaism are separate and different religions. Christians are not Jews. Jews are not Christians. It is quite clear that KellyJay believes that, while Christians might escape going to "Hell", by contrast Jews - as long as they are Jews and not believers in Christ, will not.
Christianity is a Jewish sect is it not?
Originally posted by @fmfAre they? Jesus didn't think so.
Christianity and Judaism are separate and different religions. Christians are not Jews. Jews are not Christians. It is quite clear that KellyJay believes that, while Christians might escape going to "Hell", Jews - as long as they are Jews and not believers in Christ, will not.
Who are Christians to question Jesus?
Originally posted by @eladarSo you believe it is possible for people who do not believe that Jesus was the messiah can end up being "saved" and not going to "hell"? I don't think you've ever said anything like this before.
That's God's call, but if it is after Jesus' ministry as a person on earth I doubt it.
Originally posted by @fmfI suppose it us possible.
So you believe it is possible for people who do not believe that Jesus was the messiah can end up being "saved" and not going to "hell"? I don't think you've ever said anything like this before.
As for Jews, I'll let Paul answer the question..
Romans 11
I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, [a]a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets, they have torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they are seeking my life.” 4 But what [b]is the divine response to him? “I have kept for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s [c]gracious choice. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer [d]on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
7 What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but [e]those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened; 8 just as it is written,
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes to see not and ears to hear not,
Down to this very day.”
9 And David says,
“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
And a stumbling block and a retribution to them.
10 “Let their eyes be darkened to see not,
And bend their backs forever.”
11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. 12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their [f]fulfillment be! 13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my [g]fellow countrymen and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the [h]rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
Originally posted by @eladarAmen
I suppose it us possible.
As for Jews, I'll let Paul answer the question..
Romans 11
[b] I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, [a]a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage a ...[text shortened]... ness of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,[/b]
Originally posted by @rajk999So someone who happens to be atheistic but does good works because it is right, not because he or she thinks they will go to heaven for doing those good works, helps the poor whenever they can, gives the shirt off his back, takes in strangers who need food, adopts abused children and so forth. Never commits a crime or even has bad thoughts, is in fact an atheistic Mother Teresa. So he goes to hell, right?
God likes good an righteous people. These will end up in the Kingdom of God
What one professes with their mouth means nothing. What one believes in their heart means something. It is through belief in your heart that good works are done.
Therefore a man can say he believes but does nothing. Another man can say he does not believe but does something.
Mouth worship and those who practice it are despicable to God.
Originally posted by @sonhouseHow many good works are enough in your opinion? How many bad ones are enough to make the good ones void and meaningless? God reached out to all of us while we were yet sinners, not to the good workers. He setup salvation for all of us as we are, not to the good enough.
So someone who happens to be atheistic but does good works because it is right, not because he or she thinks they will go to heaven for doing those good works, helps the poor whenever they can, gives the shirt off his back, takes in strangers who need food, adopts abused children and so forth. Never commits a crime or even has bad thoughts, is in fact an atheistic Mother Teresa. So he goes to hell, right?
Giving us His grace due to Jesus' blood that was shed for us not because we did a good deed which we should have done anyway.