- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
27 Jan 18
When Jesus spoke of going away in chapter 14 He was speaking of His death.
The natural mind may think He was going out of town or going to the country or somewhere else on earth in which the disciples could not follow Him or could not find Him.
The truth of the matter is that He was speaking of going to crucifixion - to DIE. But though He will die He will see them again.
He foretells that they will be exceedingly sorrowful when they realize that He has gone from them in DEATH. And they were, greatly. But YET - He will see them again in resurrection. He will rise and their hears will rejoice.
Jesus teaching this lesson before He goes to His crucifixion:
" Therefore they said, what is this that He says, A little while and you do not behold Me, and again a little while and you will see Me; and Because I am going to the Father?
Therefore they said, What is this that He says, A little while? We do not know what He is talking about." (16:17,18)
John is faithful to record how perplexed His disciples were, including John himself.
Jesus explains to them.
"Jesus knew that they wanted to ask Him and He said to them, Are you inquiring among yourselves concerning this, that I said, A little while and you do not behold Me, and again a little while and you will see Me?
Truly, truly, I say to you that you will weep and lament, ...
Because of His death they will weep and lament.
" ... you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice; you will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will be turned into joy." (v.20)
Their sorrow will be turned into joy because on the third day Jesus will be resurrected from the dead and walk on earth again.
There is His pre-death and resurrection walking on earth.
And there is His post-death and resurrection walking on earth.
Don't be cheated by anyone to believe otherwise.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
27 Jan 18
Something more about the sorrowful disciples having their sorrow turned into joy. This resurrection Jesus likens to more than coming back to life. It is the BIRTH of a new born man in the universe as well.
" ... you will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will be turned into joy.
A woman when she gives birth, has sorrow because her time has come; but when she brings forth the little child, she no longer remembers that affliction because of the joy that a man has been born into the world.
Therefore you also now have sorrow, but I will see you again and your heart will rejoice, and no one takes your joy away from you." (vs. 21,22)
All this confirms that His going to the Father to prepare a place for them was His going to the cross to die a redemptive death. And His coming to them again was His resurrection.
Don't be cheated by anyone purporting to better understand the Bible as talking about a Jesus who only walked on earth once then died and is no more. That is a false teaching.
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 116952
27 Jan 18
Originally posted by @sonshipVirtually all of your posting here is convoluted and over complicated. You tend to enjoy tying metaphorical doctrinal knots and then demonstrating how to untie them. My contention with you is that there are no knots and you enjoy doing this to make yourself appear like the teacher you so want to be acknowledged as.
Prove rather why the "convoluted" explanations are incorrect.
You never read or never took seriously that Paul said the church is the habitation of God in spirit.
Of course you didn't because "Jesus when He walked on earth" is your way of saying you reject most of the [b]New Testament in unbelief.
[quote] Being built upon the foundatio ...[text shortened]... way as convoluted.
But we see no better alternative analysis from you or Ghost-of-Duke, do we ?
I don’t think you are a bad person, just somewhat pious and very pouty. And of course very wrong about a few things.
Originally posted by @sonshipThere is a way that others can be mingled with God if He goes to His cross to die for us, redeem us, cleanse us from sin, and come again in resurrection to receive us TO Himself in His resurrection form -
Jesus is a man mingled with God.
If no other man or woman could be mingled with God, He would have told us so.
There is a way that others can be mingled with God if He goes to His cross to die for us, redeem us, cleanse us from sin, and come again in resurrection to receive us TO Himself in His resurrection form -
That where He IS - in union with Hi ...[text shortened]... n with His Father in God as many sons of God, as many abodes like the ONE unique abode of Jesus.
According to the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry, one becomes one with God by abiding in the way, the truth and the life.
The gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry describes the way, the truth and the life.
Whoever abides in the way, the truth and the life is a true disciple of Jesus and is set free from committing sin - which is required to become one with God, i.e., have eternal life. Abiding in the way, the truth and the life also makes one "clean".
It's all about abiding in the way, the truth and the life.
Conceptually it's really straight-forward and simple, unlike your Rube Goldberg theology.
Originally posted by @thinkofoneWrong pal. To mingle with God one must do the following:
[b]There is a way that others can be mingled with God if He goes to His cross to die for us, redeem us, cleanse us from sin, and come again in resurrection to receive us TO Himself in His resurrection form -
According to the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry, one becomes one with God by abiding in the way, the truth and the life.
Th ...[text shortened]... fe.
Conceptually it's really straight-forward and simple, unlike your Rube Goldberg theology.[/b]
- profess that you know Christ
- pray to Christ over and over
- claim to love Christ over and over
- pray read the bible.
- talk to others about Christ
- Talk to yourself about Christ
Repeat these steps daily.
It is wrong to do the following as it is an insult to the sacrifice of Christ and it is trying to earn ones salvation:
- live righteously
- resist sin and temptation
- feed the poor
- clothe the naked
Any attempt to do these will lead to loss of salvation because Christ died so that you wont have to do these things.
Christ wants talk and mouth worship.
27 Jan 18
Originally posted by @thinkofoneIt does make sense that any divine message in the bible would be simple and straightforward to understand.
[b]There is a way that others can be mingled with God if He goes to His cross to die for us, redeem us, cleanse us from sin, and come again in resurrection to receive us TO Himself in His resurrection form -
According to the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry, one becomes one with God by abiding in the way, the truth and the life.
Th ...[text shortened]... fe.
Conceptually it's really straight-forward and simple, unlike your Rube Goldberg theology.[/b]
It's like making good pastry. The more you overwork it the less palatable it becomes.
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 116952
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeIndeed.
It does make sense that any divine message in the bible would be simple and straightforward to understand.
It's like making good pastry. The more you overwork it the less palatable it becomes.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
28 Jan 18
When then did Jesus come to His disciples to abide in them? According to John's Gospel was this before the death and resurrection or afterwards?
It was clearly after His resurrection. It is after His resurrection that He breathed into the disciples the Holy Spirit right out of His mouth in chapter 20.
When He performed this act He told them to Receive the Holy Spirit.
" when therefore it was evening on that day ..." (John 20:19a)
"[T]hat day" was the same day in which He appeared alive again to Mary (vs. 14-18)
" ,... the first day of the week ,,,"
That became known as "the Lord's day" , the day that the Lord Jesus rose from the dead. It was the first day of a new week. aka the pagan "sunday".
"... and while the doors were shut where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst and said to them, Peace be to you.
And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. The disciples therefore rejoiced at seeing the Lord."
I love the way the Bible understates things. You either believe it or your don't ThinkOfOne doesn't believe this. I do. The rejoiced at seeing the Lord who was crucified, dead, and buried ALIVE AGAIN.
Now the important part. Jesus told them to receive the Holy Spirit whom He had promised would come to them and be with them forever. That was Jesus Himself in His other form as the Holy Spirit - the "Another Comforter" - "the Spirit of reality".
"Then Jesus said to them again, Peace be to you, as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.
And when He had said this, He breathed into them and said to them,
Receive the Holy Spirit." (See John 20:21,22)
When the Holy breath, the Holy Spirit was breathed into each of them Jesus Himself came to indwell them just as He had promised.
Beware that the natural mind will dumb down the Gospel of John to its own level of unbelief. The natural mind devoid of revelation will do this boasting of a more "straightorward" understanding.
It is the "understanding" of the man who does not believe the pure word of God that Jesus Christ rose from the dead.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
28 Jan 18
2 edits
Jesus had promised the coming of the Holy Spirit.
Many Christians know that at Pentecost the Holy Spirit came down upon the disciples. But that was for power and work.
Before the day of Pentecost Jesus in His form as the Holy Spirit was dispensed INTO His disciples on the day of His resurrection.
That is seen above when He breathed into them and commanded them to Receive the Holy Spirit (John 20:12).
The Spirit promised to come to abide with the disciples forever began to abide in them on that day of Christ's resurrection.
"And when He had said this, He breathed into them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit." (John 20:22)
Beware though of the natural mind like that displayed by the posters who dumb down the Gospel of John to their level of disbelief in the supernatural.
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeSimple and straightforward - eg
It does make sense that any divine message in the bible would be simple and straightforward to understand.
It's like making good pastry. The more you overwork it the less palatable it becomes.
thou shall not kill
blessed are the peacemakers
God loves a cheerful giver
the righteous will enter the Kingdom of God.
I can just hear Christ telling some Christians:
.. what is it about my commandment to love thy neighbour did you not understand ?
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
28 Jan 18
1 edit
On the day of His resurrection and appearance to sister Mary at His tomb, Jesus that evening came to be with the disciples.
Jesus breathed into them and told them to "Receive the Holy Spirit."
It is important to see the Triune God in this matter. The Third Person of the Trinity was the Second Person of the Trinity in another form. And this is proved by going back to chapter 14 and seeing that the coming of the Holy Spirit to the disciples would be the coming of Jesus to the disciples.
" ... even the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him,
but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you." (John 14:27)
As a man in the flesh He was abiding with the disciples for three and one half years. Something is about to happened when the One abiding with them will be in them - abiding in them - living in them.
"but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you."
Suddenly the "He" becomes the "I" of the next verse 18!
"I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you." (v.18)
The coming of the Holy Spirit Whom He told them to receive was His coming to them, not leaving them orphans but living IN them.
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeHe presumably believes he may be "saving" hundreds of silent members from eternal torture, just as he believes I may be causing hundreds and hundreds of silent members to face eternal torture because of my non-Christian attempts to discuss things with him.
Again it is noted sonship's sole intention here is of preaching, not discussing.
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 116952
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeOther than us few guys who are the handful of people posting replies, and of course suzianne sitting cross-legged at his feet, I really don’t know who sonship thinks he is talking to.
Again it is noted sonship's sole intention here is of preaching, not discussing.
Nor why he isn’t out in the streets where there is a real audience of millions of people who his version of Jesus is waiting to burn alive for eternity because sonship was in here. Pouting.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeMy sole intention is to make the truth known.
Again it is noted sonship's sole intention here is of preaching, not discussing.
Sometimes discussion works.
At other times it is clear that argument will not help some unbelief.
You see, the New Testament itself tells us that some will receive the truth through "the foolishness of the preaching".
"For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know God, God was well pleased through the foolishness of the preaching to save those who believe." (1 Cor. 1:21)
'[T]he preaching" there is the object of the preaching or the Person who is being preached. Jesus Christ is the Person of whom I am speaking.
Though I pray for everyone practically here, it is possible that some reading will not be saved. They will not belieive in the living Person, the risen Christ, God's Son,