John 8:58

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
explains nothing.

Hey, that would be a good title for your autobiography.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Hey, that would be a good title for your autobiography.

Maybe I could author a materialistic cornucopia of social darwinism and national socialism. I am thinking of calling it, 'My struggle'. It has potential, explains nothing just isn't working for me dude.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I suggest you ask josephw to explain his own mind. 😏

In the mean time, consider the verses that follow:

For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Tr ...[text shortened]... will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel."

(John 5:18-20 NASB)

The Pharisees were of the opinion that Christ was making himself equal to God.
Christ said God is greater.

You choose who you want to believe.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I thought the answer to that would be fairly obvious to anyone with the ability to discern? They are trying to find a pretext upon which to condemn Jesus, like breaking the Sabbath (a false charge) or making himself equal to God (another false charge)

"They", the Jews, according to the scriptures, charged Jesus with saying something that made Himself equal with God. That you and I can agree with, but that's the irony of it. Jesus said what "they" understood to mean that He was in fact doing just that.

The "charge" wasn't false contrary to what you think. Why would Jesus say a thing that can be interpreted to mean that He was in fact doing just that, making Himself equal with God? A point you have just acknowledged. Because that was exactly what Jesus was saying!

You need to see that!

Originally posted by Rajk999
The Pharisees were of the opinion that Christ was making himself equal to God.
Christ said God is greater.

You choose who you want to believe.

If you were able to compare scripture with scripture you would understand why Jesus said that the father was greater than Himself.

Jesus became as you and I. An ordinary man, but without sin, that did the will of His father, as an ordinary man. Something that you and I cannot do.

As an ordinary man Jesus did what you and I cannot do, i.e. the will of the father.

Jesus did for us what we are incapable of doing for ourselves. As an ordinary man Jesus did the will of His father to the death.

That is why, as a man, Jesus said that the Father was greater than Him. To do, as an ordinary man, what we cannot do, i.e. the will of God.

Originally posted by Rajk999
The Pharisees were of the opinion that Christ was making himself equal to God.
Christ said God is greater.

You choose who you want to believe.

Jesus did not actually say God was greater, He said His Father was greater. 😏

Originally posted by josephw
If you were able to compare scripture with scripture you would understand why Jesus said that the father was greater than Himself.

Jesus became as you and I. An ordinary man, but without sin, that did the will of His father, as an ordinary man. Something that you and I cannot do.

As an ordinary man Jesus did what you and I cannot do, i.e. the will of ...[text shortened]... Father was greater than Him. To do, as an ordinary man, what we cannot do, i.e. the will of God.

As an ordinary man or even after resurrection .. there is no difference. God is still above all - including Christ

Is Paul mistaken here then as Christ is risen and in heaven having authority over all things etc:

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Paui lays out a 'pecking order' :

God first
Christ second
Man third
Woman fourth.

What mental gymnastics do you have to perform to twist that plain simple passage !!
I dont envy you guys 😀
It must be hard.

Originally posted by Rajk999
As an ordinary man or even after resurrection .. there is no difference. God is still above all - including Christ

Is Paul mistaken here then as Christ is risen and in heaven having authority over all things etc:

[i]1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ i ...[text shortened]... ave to perform to twist that plain simple passage !!
I dont envy you guys 😀
It must be hard.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

(1 Timothy 3:16 KJV)

In orthodox Christian theology, Christ is both fully man and fully God.

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

(Colossians 2:9 KJV)

Originally posted by RJHinds

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

(1 Timothy 3:16 KJV)

In orthodox Christian theology, Christ is both fully man and fully God.

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

(Colossians 2:9 KJV)

.. And still subject to God his Father.

Originally posted by Rajk999
.. And still subject to God his Father.

I wonder if its too simple for them to grasp? Their reasoning borders on the absurd and is really rather desperate·

Originally posted by Rajk999
.. And still subject to God his Father.

You seem to overlook the fact that the Holy Spirit and the Son are equally God with the Father. These three of the Trinity work together as one God. Certainly, orthodox Christianity acknowledges that the Father is the first person, the Son is the second person, and the Holy Spirit is the third person of the triune God. However, their position does not prevent each from being equally God. That is what you don't seem to be able to understand. 😏

Originally posted by RJHinds
You seem to overlook the fact that the Holy Spirit and the Son are equally God with the Father. These three of the Trinity work together as one God. Certainly, orthodox Christianity acknowledges that the Father is the first person, the Son is the second person, and the Holy Spirit is the third person of the triune God. However, their position does not prevent each from being equally God. That is what you don't seem to be able to understand. 😏

I have no interest in orthodox Christianity or any other group or sect of Christianity and what they say about the Trinity. If you want to discuss the Bible and what it says then I'm in, otherwise you are on your own.

So far Christ and Paul are both acknowledging the superiority of God over Christ :
- God is the head of Christ
- God is greater than Christ
- God knows of events or things which are not known to Christ
- Christ will rule for a period and then hand over to God
- Christ is a mediator between God and men
- Christ said to pray to God .. not to him.

I quoted several passages which you unable to properly refute.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I wonder if its too simple for them to grasp? Their reasoning borders on the absurd and is really rather desperate·

An example of tribalism. People stick with who they consider their own. Tribalism eliminates the need for honesty and truthfulness which requires great strength of character.

Originally posted by Rajk999
An example of tribalism. People stick with who they consider their own. Tribalism eliminates the need for honesty and truthfulness which requires great strength of character.

Are you in league with robbie? Seems you're as guilty as you say the rest of us are. Watch where you point your finger Rajk! Makes you look like a hypocrite.

You and robbie suffer from retentive issues. The reason you are unable to understand who Jesus is is because you follow the interpretations of men rather than allowing God's Word to speak for itself.

The JW religion seems to think Jesus is the archangel Michael, but without a shread of scriptural evidence, which is by itself inane, and the Watchtower goes to great lengths to make obscure the hundreds of verses that tell us who Jesus actually is.

If, as you and your fellow robbie believe, Jesus isn't the incarnation of God Almighty, then who do you think He is?

If all you can do is refute the Biblical evidence with spurious interpretations, and not provide evidence that states clearly that Jesus is someone else, then what you are doing nothing short of resisting the Holy Spirit, which teaches us the truths of God's Word.

Originally posted by josephw
Are you in league with robbie? Seems you're as guilty as you say the rest of us are. Watch where you point your finger Rajk! Makes you look like a hypocrite.

You and robbie suffer from retentive issues. The reason you are unable to understand who Jesus is is because you follow the interpretations of men rather than allowing God's Word to speak for itself. ...[text shortened]... are doing nothing short of resisting the Holy Spirit, which teaches us the truths of God's Word.

Nothing of substance in that post.

Here is what I just posted to RJH:

***********************************************************
I have no interest in orthodox Christianity or any other group or sect of Christianity and what they say about the Trinity. If you want to discuss the Bible and what it says then I'm in, otherwise you are on your own.

So far Christ and Paul are both acknowledging the superiority of God over Christ :
- God is the head of Christ
- God is greater than Christ
- God knows of events or things which are not known to Christ
- Christ will rule for a period and then hand over to God
- Christ is a mediator between God and men
- Christ said to pray to God .. not to him.

I quoted several passages which you unable to properly refute.
**************************************************************

All of the above is supported in the Bible and show that Christ is subservient to God.

Where is the proof that Christ is equal to God?