06 Nov 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobieBut, there is a difference between what will come to be and what could come to be. For example, tonight I will stay in, however I could go to the pub. Although I will not go to the pub in the actual world it is easy to imagine happening and so there is a possible world where my counterpart does go to the pub. So I think that the statement "Not all will be saved." is different from the statement "Not all can be saved.". This then leaves the possibility of complete conversion of the World's population to Jehovah's Witnessdom and you'd be stuffed for people whose door you can knock on. So you still have the problem.
I suspect that proclaiming the kingdom of God means to evangelize. It seems fairly clear from the scriptures that have been cited that it was an admonishment to go to towns and villages and preach and teach about Gods Kingdom. I don't see how it can be interpreted in any other way. Also there is no possibility that the entire world will be as you ...[text shortened]... ut small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. - Matt 7:14
06 Nov 15
Originally posted by DeepThoughtthere is no problem,
But, there is a difference between what will come to be and what could come to be. For example, tonight I will stay in, however I could go to the pub. Although I will not go to the pub in the actual world it is easy to imagine happening and so there is a possible world where my counterpart does go to the pub. So I think that the statement "Not all wil ...[text shortened]... dom and you'd be stuffed for people whose door you can knock on. So you still have the problem.
It might be mathematically possible that every single person in the world becomes a kingdom proclaimer after all anything with a probability greater than zero is possible but we can treat it as practically impossible as if it did have a probability of zero. Although this is merely a convention is makes practical sense otherwise we might never venture out due to the probability that a piano may fall on our heads. Furthermore proclaiming Gods Kingdom is not limited to going from house to house as you erroneously assume and even if it was we could still go to each others houses proclaiming the Kingdom of God to each other. Panic over, problem, solved.
06 Nov 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobiePeople who are spiritually dead spend way too much time fussing over someone who has died... when they're dead their dead, and that's that. There is nothing anyone can say about or do to a person who has died to make it better for themselves or the person who has died.
Luke 9:60 - New International Version
Jesus said to him, "Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God."
An interesting phrase, 'let the dead bury their own dead'. What did Jesus mean and what implications does this have for Christians?
I'm particularly offended by hypocrites who give condolences and have nothing but good things to say about the dead, after having given them a hard time when they were alive. And it seems the nastier they were to the person before they passed on the nicer they are after they are gone. If they won't treat someone with consideration and respect when they are alive, then imo they should just keep their pie holes shut after they've died.
06 Nov 15
(Isaiah 58:7, 8) It is to share your bread with the hungry, To bring the poor and homeless into your house, To clothe someone naked when you see him, And not to turn your back on your own flesh. 8 Then your light will shine through like the dawn, And your healing will spring up quickly. Your righteousness will go before you, And the glory of Jehovah will be your rear guard.
Yes, as JW's we do other things i.e. feed the hungry, provide shelter for the homeless, witness to our relatives, etc. but, the most important work we must do as Paul pointed out is (1 Corinthians 9:16) "Now if I am declaring the good news, it is no reason for me to boast, for necessity is laid upon me. Really, woe to me if I do not declare the good news!" As Christians we must preach the Good News of the Kingdom. It alone is the full solution to all the other problems.
It is most important because it is through that Kingdom through God's Son Christ Jesus that His Name will be sanctified and His Sovereignty vindicated.
The false accusation Satan made in the Garden of Eden will be answered.
(Genesis 3:3-5) 3 But God has said about the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden: ‘You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it; otherwise you will die.’” 4 At this the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die. 5 For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.”
Satan has provided plenty of bad down through the centuries.
Haven't we had enough of knowing bad?
Wouldn't we enjoy knowing good for a change?
06 Nov 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobieNot really, you have a requirement to proclaim God's Kingdom which is apparently unqualified. Proclaiming the Kingdom amounts to an official announcement, so you might do it as part of a ceremony in the way the Nicene Creed is in Anglican services, but the unqualified nature of your claim seems to rule that out. So I don't agree that preaching to the converted on a daily basis can qualify as a requirement for being spiritually alive. In fact I really don't think that trying to convert others is a necessary or a sufficient criterion for spiritual life.
there is no problem,
It might be mathematically possible that every single person in the world becomes a kingdom proclaimer after all anything with a probability greater than zero is possible but we can treat it as practically impossible as if it did have a probability of zero. Although this is merely a convention is makes practical sense otherw ...[text shortened]... o each others houses proclaiming the Kingdom of God to each other. Panic over, problem, solved.
07 Nov 15
Originally posted by roigamDo you know of Christians who do not preach the good news of Christ?
(Isaiah 58:7, 8) It is to share your bread with the hungry, To bring the poor and homeless into your house, To clothe someone naked when you see him, And not to turn your back on your own flesh. 8 Then your light will shine through like the dawn, And your healing will spring up quickly. Your righteousness will go before you, And the glory of Jehovah will be ...[text shortened]... centuries.
Haven't we had enough of knowing bad?
Wouldn't we enjoy knowing good for a change?
07 Nov 15
Originally posted by lemon limeI think it's human nature to "fuss" over the dead and we all have our own ways of dealing with grief and loss. I know of countless religious and apparently 'spiritually alive' people who ~ while accepting the dead person is dead, as you suggest ~ spend time thinking about them and coming to terms with them no longer being around. I cannot see what's "spiritually dead" about it at all. Personally I think this memory of - celebration of - love of - deceased family and friends is the only "life after death" that there is; it's something that lives on after they pass away.
People who are spiritually dead spend way too much time fussing over someone who has died... when they're dead their dead, and that's that.
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07 Nov 15
Originally posted by roigamIs there any other group, church, collections of Christians or an individual that know of who is "proclaiming the kingdom", other than the Jehovah's Witneses?
(Isaiah 58:7, 8) It is to share your bread with the hungry, To bring the poor and homeless into your house, To clothe someone naked when you see him, And not to turn your back on your own flesh. 8 Then your light will shine through like the dawn, And your healing will spring up quickly. Your righteousness will go before you, And the glory of Jehovah will be ...[text shortened]... centuries.
Haven't we had enough of knowing bad?
Wouldn't we enjoy knowing good for a change?
07 Nov 15
Originally posted by lemon limeIts a very interesting perspective and one I had not thought of to be honest. Perhaps even if there was some enmity and some strife created during a lifetime people see it as having been resolved by the death of someone, as if they have paid the ultimate price?
People who are spiritually dead spend way too much time fussing over someone who has died... when they're dead their dead, and that's that. There is nothing anyone can say about or do to a person who has died to make it better for themselves or the person who has died.
I'm particularly offended by hypocrites who give condolences and have nothing but go ...[text shortened]... ect when they are alive, then imo they should just keep their pie holes shut after they've died.
Originally posted by DeepThoughtyes really, there is no factor in the equation which states that the proclamation of Gods Kingdom must be done solely to unbelievers. Infact when one is giving a public discourse from the Bible to fellow believers one is proclaiming Gods Kingdom. Whether you think it is a criteria for a spiritual life is neither here nor there, the Bible makes the point and I think its Biblically valid that unless you are proclaiming Gods Kingdom you are spiritually dead and no amount of speculation and conjecture on your part can change the fact. If you can say why its not Biblically valid then do so.
Not really, you have a requirement to proclaim God's Kingdom which is apparently unqualified. Proclaiming the Kingdom amounts to an official announcement, so you might do it as part of a ceremony in the way the Nicene Creed is in Anglican services, but the unqualified nature of your claim seems to rule that out. So I don't agree that preaching to the c ...[text shortened]... think that trying to convert others is a necessary or a sufficient criterion for spiritual life.
Originally posted by Rajk999Yes Christianity since its adoption of a clergy laity distinction have for the most part left the preaching and teaching up to a paid minister or priest and the laity have remained largely passive the result being that instead of being fishers of men they are aquarium keepers.
Do you know of Christians who do not preach the good news of Christ?
07 Nov 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSpeculation and conjecture? I find the notion that someone is rendered spiritually dead because they don't proclaim the Kingdom of God bizarre. If you really want I'll look at the relevant passage and say what I think. But even if it is biblically valid, valid is not the same as sound.
yes really, there is no factor in the equation which states that the proclamation of Gods Kingdom must be done solely to unbelievers. Infact when one is giving a public discourse from the Bible to fellow believers one is proclaiming Gods Kingdom. Whether you think it is a criteria for a spiritual life is neither here nor there, the Bible makes the ...[text shortened]... cture on your part can change the fact. If you can say why its not Biblically valid then do so.
Originally posted by DeepThoughtThe argument is pure straw, unadulterated straw. No one has claimed anyone is 'rendered' spiritually dead because they do not proclaim Gods Kingdom, they may already be in spiritually dead state regardless of whether they take up the call or not. That you find it bizarre or anything else is neither here nor there, we are not arguing on the parameters of your personal perspective but what may be established Biblically or at least I am. That is why the passage was quoted. It may also not only be Biblically valid it may also be Biblically valid and universally sound.
Speculation and conjecture? I find the notion that someone is rendered spiritually dead because they don't proclaim the Kingdom of God bizarre. If you really want I'll look at the relevant passage and say what I think. But even if it is biblically valid, valid is not the same as sound.
The passage was quoted for a reason and questions asked on the basis of that passage. Its what we Christians do, we reason on the scriptures.