1. Standard memberRajk999
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    02 Jan '17 12:332 edits
    An often quoted passage by KJ: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18 KJV)

    Taken by itself this passages appears to be supporting mouth worship ie just believe in the name Jesus Christ. However, the whole passage tells a different story. Most translations use the word 'judgment' instead of 'condemnation'. Here is the ASV:

    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, lest his works should be reproved. But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God. (John 3:16-21 ASV)


    The passage clearly explains what is the reason for the condemnation / judgment, and it is not simply lack of belief [with the mouth] in Christ. It is about belief in the heart because it is this belief in the heart which makes man live righteously. The passage says some people love sin and evil while some love righteousness and good works.

    Jesus Christ = The Light. Those who love truth and love righteousness will follow Jesus Christ / The Light, so that their works will be made manifest.

    Evil men love darkness, because they commit sin and live unrighteously, therefore they would not follow Christ because they would be condemned / reproved. These people hate Christ, or avoid Christ because He is the Light and His teachings would be difficult or impossible for them to do.

    Jesus further said:
    Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. (John 8:12 KJV)

    Those who avoid the teachings of Christ love darkness, walk in darkness and are evil and sinful people.
    Good and righteous people love the Light and they follow the teachings of Christ.
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    02 Jan '17 12:59
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    An often quoted passage by KJ: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18 KJV)

    Taken by itself this passages appears to be supporting mouth worship ie just believe in the name Jesus Christ. However, the whole passa ...[text shortened]... inful people.
    Good and righteous people love the Light and they follow the teachings of Christ.
    Two things.

    One is that there is a thing called "easy believism". It's as if to say that one is saved now, and can do whatever and get away with it. I've never heard it taught, but it seems to be implied, vaguely, by some. I know not who.

    The other thing is this phrase you use, "the teachings of Christ". It's as if you're saying there was another teaching by someone else in the scriptures that Christians are listening to.

    So I ask you, what portion of the 66 books of the Bible do you consider not the teachings of Christ?
  3. Standard memberapathist
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    02 Jan '17 13:09
    Originally posted by josephw
    ...
    One is that there is a thing called "easy believism". It's as if to say that one is saved now, and can do whatever and get away with it. I've never heard it taught, but it seems to be implied, vaguely, by some. I know not who....
    Most Christians. They are just people after all. They do all the rotten things that people do.
  4. Standard memberRajk999
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    02 Jan '17 13:27
    Originally posted by josephw
    Two things.

    One is that there is a thing called "easy believism". It's as if to say that one is saved now, and can do whatever and get away with it. I've never heard it taught, but it seems to be implied, vaguely, by some. I know not who.

    The other thing is this phrase you use, "the teachings of Christ". It's as if you're saying there was another teach ...[text shortened]... u, what portion of the 66 books of the Bible do you consider [b]not
    the teachings of Christ?[/b]
    I dont mind addressing your points. However I cannot see the connection with the opening post. Please start another thread with these issues and I will respond. Thanks
  5. Standard memberRajk999
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    02 Jan '17 13:30
    Originally posted by apathist
    Most Christians. They are just people after all. They do all the rotten things that people do.
    Followers of Christ are not just people. They do not do all the rotten things that people do.
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    02 Jan '17 13:35
    Originally posted by apathist
    Most Christians. They are just people after all. They do all the rotten things that people do.
    True. Christians are everyday ordinary people.

    The difference is they are empowered to overcome "besetting sin".

    I'm not overly concerned with people's foibles, whether they be Christians or not. It's the gross immorality that is at issue, that can have a profound and debilitating effect on a person's life.
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    02 Jan '17 13:36
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Followers of Christ are not just people. They do not do all the rotten things that people do.
    Not the mature ones, but even they sometimes fall.
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    02 Jan '17 13:39
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I dont mind addressing your points. However I cannot see the connection with the opening post. Please start another thread with these issues and I will respond. Thanks
    You're the one that made the "connection" with the OP. You posted the phrase "the teachings of Christ" here in this thread.

    All I'm asking you to do is to qualify that phrase.
  9. Standard memberRajk999
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    02 Jan '17 13:501 edit
    Originally posted by josephw
    You're the one that made the "connection" with the OP. You posted the phrase "the teachings of Christ" here in this thread.

    All I'm asking you to do is to qualify that phrase.
    The 'teachings of Christ' is defined by Jesus Christ himself. They are referred to in the New Testament as:
    - my words
    - my commandments
    These are all the instructions given by Christ as he traveled and preached, and these pertained to righteous living, good works and the avoidance of sin, which if followed will lead to life eternal in the Kingdom of God.
  10. Standard memberKellyJay
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    02 Jan '17 15:101 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    An often quoted passage by KJ: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18 KJV)

    Taken by itself this passages appears to be supporting mouth worship ie just believe in the name Jesus Christ. However, the whole passa ...[text shortened]... inful people.
    Good and righteous people love the Light and they follow the teachings of Christ.
    It is a simple passage and not difficult to understand even as you attempt to alter the
    meaning. The quote starts out sticking to the point that one must believe, God gave His
    Son so that whosoever believes in Him would not perish but have eternal life. The starting
    point, the theme of this passage rests on believing in the Son (Jesus Christ).

    It goes on in context to say that God didn't want any judge the Word by sending Jesus
    but to save it, making the comparison of those that do believe and those that do not. For
    those that do believe will again have life, and getting to those that do not are already
    condemn, why because they do not believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    There is a judgement that the Light of the World has come but men love darkness rather
    than the light because their works are evil. Jesus is that Light, so again avoiding Jesus
    is avoiding the Light of God which exposes our evil works to reprove them. Those that
    are avoiding that are in the darkness, condemn already!

    You want your life in the Light of God you better get right with God through Jesus Christ,
    without Jesus you walk in darkness condemn.
  11. Standard memberKellyJay
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    02 Jan '17 15:23
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Followers of Christ are not just people. They do not do all the rotten things that people do.
    You pervert Christ's being by attempting to make Him out to be someone other than who
    He was while He walked the planet, the Son of Man, and the Son of God. Instead you
    twist that into Him being something above a man and less than God.

    Here you promote the followers of Christ into something over than just people. Is there
    no end to your error? Jesus came to save sinners, people after Jesus begins that good
    work in us we are still just people. If we sin, we have someone sitting at the right hand
    of God on our behalf. That isn't saying we should stay in sin, but if we do after all we
    are just people!
  12. Standard memberKellyJay
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    02 Jan '17 15:28
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    The 'teachings of Christ' is defined by Jesus Christ himself. They are referred to in the New Testament as:
    - my words
    - my commandments
    These are all the instructions given by Christ as he traveled and preached, and these pertained to righteous living, good works and the avoidance of sin, which if followed will lead to life eternal in the Kingdom of God.
    John 6:29
    Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

    Galatians 2:16
    Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

    Titus 3:8
    This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
  13. Standard memberRajk999
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    02 Jan '17 15:32
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    It is a simple passage and not difficult to understand even as you attempt to alter the
    meaning. The quote starts out sticking to the point that one must believe, God gave His
    Son so that whosoever believes in Him would not perish but have eternal life. The starting
    point, the theme of this passage rests on believing in the Son (Jesus Christ).

    It goes ...[text shortened]... you better get right with God through Jesus Christ,
    without Jesus you walk in darkness condemn.
    OK, I did not expect you fully understand the passage. It is complicated. I understand.
    -
  14. Standard memberRajk999
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    02 Jan '17 15:383 edits
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    You pervert Christ's being by attempting to make Him out to be someone other than who
    He was while He walked the planet, the Son of Man, and the Son of God. Instead you
    twist that into Him being something above a man and less than God.

    Here you promote the followers of Christ into something over than just people. Is there
    no end to your error? Jesus c ...[text shortened]... our behalf. That isn't saying we should stay in sin, but if we do after all we
    are just people!
    I dont know who you are calling 'we', but Christian disciples or Christian saints or followers of Christ are called to a higher standard of conduct. If you truly loved Light rather than Darkness you would readily see this .. that Jesus called his followers to be the SALT of the earth, the LIGHT of the world. Similar sentiments are expressed by all of the Aposltes pertaining to the conduct of Christian saints.

    Im beginning to see the source of your problem. You apparently see some virtue in boasting of your sins and forgetting that after Jesus saved you from you sins you must continue on with an exemplary life. You stop short of proceeding in that direction and focus on your evil nature rather than attempt to overcome it as Christ commanded you to do... proof that you appear to hate the Light and love the Darkness.
  15. Standard memberKellyJay
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    02 Jan '17 16:261 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I dont know who you are calling 'we', but Christian disciples or Christian saints or followers of Christ are called to a higher standard of conduct. If you truly loved Light rather than Darkness you would readily see this .. that Jesus called his followers to be the SALT of the earth, the LIGHT of the world. Similar sentiments are expressed by all of the Apo ...[text shortened]... as Christ commanded you to do... proof that you appear to hate the Light and love the Darkness.
    Christians require God's Spirit, they require Jesus Christ, they require the Truth, Light, and
    Life which are all Jesus Christ. You cannot belong to God unless you have God's Spirit,
    and if you do not come to Jesus your works will be done in darkness, therefore they will
    not be acceptable to God. Jesus does require us to follow Him, walking after the Spirit of
    God. If you do not come to the Light your works will be done in darkness, if you do not
    believe in Jesus you will be condemn already, and when you do go to Jesus, you will
    stop walking after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    You want to make following God all about the human effort without Jesus being required.
    He is central to it all, our sure foundation, our light, truth, and life.

    Romans
    8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
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