Light v Darkness

Originally posted by KellyJay
Do you think all of mankind are sinners that need saved by Jesus grace, or do you believe
that only some are, and others because they are good enough do not need to go to Jesus
for salvation?

Christ death was for all of mankind whether or not they know of him. All of mankind therefore is already saved by grace. Yes they need to be saved by grace, otherwise there is no eternal life for anyone.

I have said this before and I will say it again only because I think you are probably a genuine Christian trying to find the truth... FAITH + WORKS = PERFECTION. But not everyone will be 100% faithful and 100% righteous. There will be an infinite number of variations of these. Jesus will know how to judge people because he knows the heart of man.

Christian saints will be expected to have a higher amount of these two as these saints will rule as kings and priests with Christ on the earth during His reign. A higher level of conduct and faith would therefore be required of them.

Not everyone in the Kingdom of God will be Christian saints ruling with Christ. There will be a whole lot of others who have pleased God in some form or fashion as stated in Romans 2. Christians have a problem with Romans 2 because they believe that they have some kind of exclusive right to Christ. Christ is bigger than Christianity.

Christ was clear in the passage in the opening post. People will be condemned because they do not like the Light, because the Light [Christ] will condemn their evil works. They love darkness because they can continue with their sin without being reproved.

Some churches preach that righteous living is not required, they would not have to account for sin, as Jesus died for all sin. This is an example of that darkness that some people like, and that doctrine is not of Christ.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Do you understand the opening post? If so do you have a comment to make regarding its contents.?

This is the same topic, I'm trying to clarify your points your doctrine doesn't seem to stay
Biblical and I'm trying to understand your meaning.

Originally posted by KellyJay
This is the same topic, I'm trying to clarify your points your doctrine doesn't seem to stay
Biblical and I'm trying to understand your meaning.

The fact that you so often reply to posts that specifically addresses another persons comment as it it were meant for you, tells something about your ability to focus and understand.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christ death was for all of mankind whether or not they know of him. All of mankind therefore is already saved by grace. Yes they need to be saved by grace, otherwise there is no eternal life for anyone.

I have said this before and I will say it again only because I think you are probably a genuine Christian trying to find the truth... FAITH + WORKS = PE ...[text shortened]... . This is an example of that darkness that some people like, and that doctrine is not of Christ.

Christ death was for all of mankind whether or not they know of him. All of mankind therefore is already saved by grace. Yes they need to be saved by grace, otherwise there is no eternal life for anyone.

This isn't true, Christ death was for everyone, but not everyone is saved! There are those
that believe in Christ and those that do not! Those that are not have failed to take upon
themselves Christ's forgiveness even though they could have since Christ did die for
them.

We are saved by our faith in Jesus, and when saved we will do the works of God with
God's Spirit. If we do not have God's Spirit we do not belong to God, if we are not walking
in God's Spirit we do not belong to God. If we stumble we go to Jesus forgiveness and
repent since Jesus is our advocate, this isn't a license to sin.

The standard is the same for us all, perfection which is only found in Christ for us since
all of us have fallen short by being sinners. Our conduct should be in Christ, following
God's Spirit which is a higher standard but that standard is God in us, not us by being
good enough by our own efforts without God.

If you do not believe in Jesus you are condemn already, why...you know. Jesus is the
only way, there is no other.

Originally posted by Rajk999
The fact that you so often reply to posts that specifically addresses another persons comment as it it were meant for you, tells something about your ability to focus and understand.

Its an open board we are all free to talk about thing brought up by anyone else.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I know your doctrine and it is about identical to that preached by sonship.

You deny that following the commandments of Jesus is essential for eternal life as Jesus said dozens of times. The fact that you have not made any comment of substance regarding the opening post, and that you seek to derail the thread by asking questions which have no relevance, ...[text shortened]... ou possibly belong to Christ? You are from a church of course, but that church has gone astray.

You say the stupidest things. We've had this discussion before and it's always the same thing out of you. You keep saying Christians know nothing. That's about as ignorant a thing anyone can say.

When it comes to substance you fall woefully short. You make salvation contingent on an individual's performance. That's a fatal error. Good luck earning your way to heaven. Ain't never gonna happen.

Originally posted by josephw
You say the stupidest things. We've had this discussion before and it's always the same thing out of you. You keep saying Christians know nothing. That's about as ignorant a thing anyone can say.

When it comes to substance you fall woefully short. You make salvation contingent on an individual's performance. That's a fatal error. Good luck earning your way to heaven. Ain't never gonna happen.

Good luck to you as well. What happens to me is between me and God. You are not part of the equation. You extremist Christians like to lell people where they will end up as if you know anything. All I do is point out that the Christian must follow Christ .. and you people find that obnoxious .. talk about living in the darkness and hating the Light ..

Originally posted by KellyJay
Its an open board we are all free to talk about thing brought up by anyone else.

You are such a dumbo. FMJ did not say anything about the opening post... YOU DID .. so me asking him to comment on the opening post has nothing to do with you ... are you right in your head ?

Originally posted by Rajk999
You are such a dumbo. FMJ did not say anything about the opening post... YOU DID .. so me asking him to comment on the opening post has nothing to do with you ... are you right in your head ?

I see your walking in love is still going strong, this your idea of walking in God's Spirit?
Your name calling only shows how much hate you have in your heart.
Why don't you just address the questions put to you, and ask your questions instead
lowering yourself to this level of discourse. People will start to think your version of
obeying Jesus' command of treating others as you would be treated means you like to
be verbally abused when you are attempting to have a normal conversation.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I see your walking in love is still going strong, this your idea of walking in God's Spirit?
Your name calling only shows how much hate you have in your heart.
Why don't you just address the questions put to you, and ask your questions instead
lowering yourself to this level of discourse. People will start to think your version of
obeying Jesus' command ...[text shortened]... ted means you like to
be verbally abused when you are attempting to have a normal conversation.

Cant keep your mind on the topic? You lack the ability to focus. Josephw called me a whole lot of derogatory names .. its like water on a ducks back ... dont give a rats behind. Even the misinformed and brainwashed are entitled to their misguided opnions.

I am focused on one thing .. the teachings of Christ.

By the way you are no saint yourself ... but I never comment on these petty trivialities... not interested.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Cant keep your mind on the topic? You lack the ability to focus. Josephw called me a whole lot of derogatory names .. its like water on a ducks back ... dont give a rats behind. Even the misinformed and brainwashed are entitled to their misguided opnions.

I am focused on one thing .. the teachings of Christ.

By the way you are no saint yourself ... but I never comment on these petty trivialities... not interested.

Did not call you "a whole lot of names". Just one. Happy it's like water off a ducks back to you.

In your OP you quote John 3:18, then John 3:16-21, and finally John 8:12, and then close your post with this statement; "Those who avoid the teachings of Christ love darkness, walk in darkness and are evil and sinful people. Good and righteous people love the Light and they follow the teachings of Christ."

What you're inferring isn't so difficult to understand. You make it clear throughout the rest of this thread just as you have in the rest of this forum for years.

You use the scriptures to insinuate that Christians don't follow the "teachings of Christ" for the sole purpose of deriding our faith in the whole council of God, which it appears you have little understanding of. Especially concerning the doctrine of salvation.

Your entire emphasis is on using the phrase "the teachings of Christ" as a platform for labeling, stereotyping and deriding Christians, and instead of engaging in a discussion of the doctrine of salvation you deflect and avoid discussing relevant passages of scripture.

The whole matter is simple. You think one must earn salvation by following "the teachings of Christ". And that's not the only thing you're wrong about.

Your understanding of what salvation is and how one acquires salvation is fundamentally flawed. Absolutely no one is ever saved based on the merits of their own performance in the flesh. A fact repeatedly taught throughout scripture.

The issue is about faith. Faith in what God has revealed at any particular time during the history of God's revelation of Himself to mankind. Under the law salvation was by faith in obedience to the law, but then after Jesus paid our sin's debt on the cross the law has been taken out of the way, and now salvation comes by faith in what Jesus did on the cross on our behalf; and not on the keeping of the law.

You're hung up on the old Gospel because you are blind to the new Gospel of the Grace of God.

Perhaps you are unaware that there is more than one Gospel in the Bible? The "Gospel of the Kingdom" and the "Gospel of the Grace of God" are mutually exclusive.

You need to grow up.

Originally posted by josephw
Did not call you "a whole lot of names". Just one. Happy it's like water off a ducks back to you.

In your OP you quote John 3:18, then John 3:16-21, and finally John 8:12, and then close your post with this statement; "Those who avoid the teachings of Christ love darkness, walk in darkness and are evil and sinful people. Good and righteous people ...[text shortened]... e Kingdom" and the "Gospel of the Grace of God" are mutually exclusive.

You need to grow up.

After years of spot-checking rajk999's posts, he seems to be advocating the belief that BOTH "faith" AND "works" are required for eternal life, to live in the kingdom, etc. And that Jesus will judge. He seems to be willing to allow Jesus to judge.

What he seems to rail against is the belief that "faith alone" is required for eternal life, to live in the kingdom, etc. It is this belief that he calls "mouth worship". He's telling people that this belief is wrong.

From what I can tell, he's analyzed the Bible as a whole to come up with his belief. Sounds like he purposely set aside any and all preconceived ideas, i.e., church dogma, and allowed the words to speak for themselves.

Have you purposely set aside any and all preconceived ideas, i.e., church dogma, and allowed the words to speak for themselves?
Or do you simply parrot what you've been told?

Based on what you've said here, it seems to be the latter. What you've said here basically amounts to "You don't believe what I've been told, so you're wrong".

Originally posted by Rajk999
Cant keep your mind on the topic? You lack the ability to focus. Josephw called me a whole lot of derogatory names .. its like water on a ducks back ... dont give a rats behind. Even the misinformed and brainwashed are entitled to their misguided opnions.

I am focused on one thing .. the teachings of Christ.

By the way you are no saint yourself ... but I never comment on these petty trivialities... not interested.

If you focused on Christ' teaching I do believe we would see that in the fruit in your conversations. The belittling and name calling shouldn't be the norm.

So does your doctrine justify your mean spirited attacks? Justifying bad behavior by saying others do it more or your claiming your not as bad only shows your aware of the bad things your doing. It's an admission not justification.

So when you sin against another by your attacks do you consider your actions before God or just move on thinking your right an they deserve it?

Originally posted by josephw
Did not call you "a whole lot of names". Just one. Happy it's like water off a ducks back to you.

In your OP you quote John 3:18, then John 3:16-21, and finally John 8:12, and then close your post with this statement; "Those who avoid the teachings of Christ love darkness, walk in darkness and are evil and sinful people. Good and righteous people ...[text shortened]... e Kingdom" and the "Gospel of the Grace of God" are mutually exclusive.

You need to grow up.

Your church doctrine is the result of ignoring ALL of the teachings of Christ and 95% of what the Apostles preached. The 5% is the part about saved by grace. If that is what you call mature then you are going to be in for a rude awakening when that day arrives.

All the Apostles spoke at length about living righteously and avoiding the sins of the world otherwise there is no eternal life in the Kingdom of God for Christians saints who violate these commandments of Christ, commandments which were repeated by the Aposltes ... no eternal life.

Hope you got that.

Originally posted by KellyJay
If you focused on Christ' teaching I do believe we would see that in the fruit in your conversations. The belittling and name calling shouldn't be the norm.

So does your doctrine justify your mean spirited attacks? Justifying bad behavior by saying others do it more or your claiming your not as bad only shows your aware of the bad things your doing. It's ...[text shortened]... do you consider your actions before God or just move on thinking your right an they deserve it?

I realise that your intellect and knowledge does not allow you to participate in discussions such as these; You are out of your depth here so I would appreciate it if you take a back seat and read from the sidelines .. thanks.