Literal vs Metaphor challenge

@KellyJay

Very well written.

Thankyou.

@sonship said
@KellyJay

I can understand him not being "interested."
I have empathy for his complaint.
I have some sympathy for his objection.

But what can I do?
My conscience is held captive to the word of God. (Luther)

I agree Hell is as bad as it gets, so not disagreeing with that point at all. My point
has been I don't get to make what I like real, and what I dislike unreal. Truth is
truth if I believe or not, lies are lies if I believe them or not. Dismissing scripture
because of personal tastes runs along the lines of those that want only to hear
what they want to hear, those itching ears. If I look for a belief systems that suits
me instead of the truth that is all I'm doing, looking to have my ears itched.

The scriptures are the Word of God or not, there are some who think that the Bible
only contains the Word of God so they look through it for those parts and writers
they like again desiring to have their ears itched. If scripture is all man made we
can do what we want with it, if not we are subject to it not the other way around.

2 Peter 1
16 For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,” 18 we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. 19 And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 20 knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. 21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

@kellyjay said
I agree Hell is as bad as it gets, so not disagreeing with that point at all. My point
has been I don't get to make what I like real, and what I dislike unreal. Truth is
truth if I believe or not, lies are lies if I believe them or not. Dismissing scripture
because of personal tastes runs along the lines of those that want only to hear
what they want to hear, those itchi ...[text shortened]... r produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

'Truth' needs to be compatible with the God you are selling.

By all means claim your omnipotent and perfectly loving God became flesh to atone for the sins of mankind, but don't claim this same God will burn unbelievers for all eternity and not expect to face ridicule.

@KellyJay

I agree Hell is as bad as it gets, so not disagreeing with that point at all. My point

As bad as it gets means to me "Is there a WORST possible offense? Is there a WORST possible transgression?"

The answer appears to be yes.
And the punishement fits the crime.
Either that or God is not the greatest Rightness and Goodness.

I have made the decisions:
1.) There is such a thing as the greatest offense.
2.) There is such a thing as the punishment fits the crime.

Less likely by far is it that God bestowed upon us creatures a sense of justice which exceeded what God is able to have within Himself. This I think is impossible.

The effect could not be greater than the cause.

has been I don't get to make what I like real, and what I dislike unreal. Truth is truth if I believe or not, lies are lies if I believe them or not. Dismissing scripture because of personal tastes runs along the lines of those that want only to hear what they want to hear, those itching ears. If I look for a belief systems that suits me instead of the truth that is all I'm doing, looking to have my ears itched.

You have to again point out that the words came from the same mouth that also spoke to the world the greatest words of mercy, forgivness, pardon, forbearance, absolving from sin, removing guilt.

The same mouth that spoke to the world the greatest words of love and mercy ALSO spoke the most fearful words of judgment.

For the concept of eternal punishment we must hold responsible for the most part - Jesus Christ.

The scriptures are the Word of God or not, there are some who think that the Bible
only contains the Word of God so they look through it for those parts and writers they like again desiring to have their ears itched. If scripture is all man made we can do what we want with it, if not we are subject to it not the other way around.

This was well written as well.

Sometimes I think of it this way - for the saved, their destiny is to be conformed more and more into the same image of Jesus the Son of God.

And perhaps those who reject Christ will in eternity be change more and more to be identical to Satan the Devil. They may be conformed to his image as kind of opposite process.

This is speculation.
I cannot insist on it.
It may be an error.

But the saved definitely are conformed to be like the Firstborn Son of God. (Roman. 8:29) . We will become like our Leader in eternity.

Maybe those who followed Satan will become like him - a process they refused to be extricated from.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
'Truth' needs to be compatible with the God you are selling.

By all means claim your omnipotent and perfectly loving God became flesh to atone for the sins of mankind, but don't claim this same God will burn unbelievers for all eternity and not expect to face ridicule.

No, truth will be truth, it isn't truth because it fits a story or belief.

I don't claim that God will burn unbelievers for all eternity lack of belief in what I
believe in, I claim that everyone who walks in evil ways, wickedness, and sin will be
judged for those things and that will be why they are cast into the eternal fire. The
perfectly loving God saw our plight knowing we could do nothing about that
since we were dead in our sins, made away to be saved. So now if we reject that
because you want no part of Jesus Christ allows us to stay on the path we want to
stay on, condemned.

People who went into the water when the Titanic sank were not killed because
they refused to get on the life rafts, they died due to environment of the cold and
water. So it will be with sin and judgment, the sin will be the death of us not the
fact we rejected salvation, without salvation's offer we would still die in our sins
due to sin being condemned.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

By all means claim your omnipotent and perfectly loving God became flesh to atone for the sins of mankind, but don't claim this same God will burn unbelievers for all eternity and not expect to face ridicule.

There are three components to this matter I think.

1.) A greatest Person of Life and Good.
2.) A free will of His creatures.
3.) The potential for the greatest crime against the Person of greatest Good.

I think that God knew what the potential result of granting His creatures free will could be. So He waited until He could subsume ALL such beings as decided they wanted nothing to do with God to be all contained in one reservoir.

I think God allowed one being to furnish as the HEAD of all lesser beings who decided they too chose by will to withdraw from God, to go it without God.

Thank Him that there is for those who make this awful mistake a PLAN of SALVATION in Christ.

I think God is way ahead of all of us. He knew what the free will potentially could do. He subsumed all such rebels into one repository under and exceedingly powerful and intelligent nemesis. A place has been prepared for them all.

New Jerusalem and the new heaven and new earth is the blessed eternal salvation of all the others.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
'Truth' needs to be compatible with the God you are selling.

By all means claim your omnipotent and perfectly loving God became flesh to atone for the sins of mankind, but don't claim this same God will burn unbelievers for all eternity and not expect to face ridicule.

I would add one more thing, God's grace and mercy has no condemnation in it,
and His wrath will have no mercy in it. It is a horrible thing to fall into the hands
of an angry God, there is none to deliver us from Him. Which is why again the
salvation that is so important that is offered is by His making, not ours, so we do
not have to face that which there is no recovery from.

@kellyjay said
I would add one more thing, God's grace and mercy has no condemnation in it,
and His wrath will have no mercy in it. It is a horrible thing to fall into the hands
of an angry God, there is none to deliver us from Him. Which is why again the
salvation that is so important that is offered is by His making, not ours, so we do
not have to face that which there is no recovery from.

Like I say Kelly, a God that has a 'wrath with no mercy in it' doesn't qualify as omnibenevolent. You can have one or the other, not both.

And that's the truth of it.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Like I say Kelly, a God that has a 'wrath with no mercy in it' doesn't qualify as omnibenevolent. You can have one or the other, not both.

And that's the truth of it.

He is not just love as some people keep pushing as if that says He cannot also be
just, holy, good, and so on. One trait has to also be true to all of the others as well.
So what would a Holy, Just, Good, Righteous God do with something given over to
evil and sin, over look it? Do throw it out of His Kingdom, and if out to where? On
top of that when He says if we show no mercy to others, we can except the same
treatment He should lie about that?

@kellyjay said
He is not just love as some people keep pushing as if that says He cannot also be
just, holy, good, and so on. One trait has to also be true to all of the others as well.
So what would a Holy, Just, Good, Righteous God do with something given over to
evil and sin, over look it? Do throw it out of His Kingdom, and if out to where? On
top of that when He says if we show no mercy to others, we can except the same
treatment He should lie about that?

On top of that when He says if we show no mercy to others, we can except the same treatment He should lie about that?

Yet you support capital punishment. How is that not the epitome of "show[ing] no mercy"?

When you post statements like this, it underscores the incoherence and hypocrisy of your beliefs. It is a prime example of your intellectual dishonesty.

@thinkofone said
On top of that when He says if we show no mercy to others, we can except the same treatment He should lie about that?

Yet you support capital punishment. How is that not the epitome of "show[ing] no mercy"?

When you post statements like this, it underscores the incoherence and hypocrisy of your beliefs. It is a prime example of your intellectual dishonesty.

Scripture you should read more of it besides your pet verses.

@kellyjay said
"I’m afraid I find you to be either dishonest or simply lacking in any ability to discuss this topic. "
"You are lying again!!"

please

Stop putting words in my mouth.

Either show where I’ve called you dishonest for “disagreeing” with you, or kindly apologise.

Thanks

@sonship said
I don't think that is the reason you avoid the question.

Suit yourself.

I assure you, I promise you, there is nothing you say, no question you can ask that I cannot respond to.

Feel free to answer my ones any time, night or day, that you find the courage to do so.

@divegeester said
Stop putting words in my mouth.

Either show where I’ve called you dishonest for “disagreeing” with you, or kindly apologise.

Thanks

Direct quotes is highlighting the words of your mouth not putting them in.

@kellyjay said
Direct quotes is highlighting the words of your mouth not putting them in.

Are you really dim or just pretending?

OKAY.. show me the “direct quotes”???