Literal vs Metaphor challenge

@kellyjay said
You think Jesus lied talking about Hell?

Nope

@sonship said
@divegeester
Whether I am wasting my time or not doesn't change the words of Christ about eternal punishment. Does it?

Jesus spoke in parables.

@sonship said
@divegeester

People are going to be tortured in hell for eternity because you are in here wasting your time being a sanctimonious arse.

Whether I am wasting my time or not doesn't change the words of Christ about eternal punishment. Does it?

So you don't like His words and to lash out at me seems your best recourse.

If you can ...[text shortened]... oul will experience. Just know that it is better to hear God's word and be saved from that judgment.

According to your Christianity there are millions, billions of people who going to be tortured for eternity by your version of the loving Jesus; if you got off your lazy ass and went into the street and preached you might help save a few. Instead you are in here making a foolishness of yourself and the gospel.

@divegeester said
Nope

So you take Him at His Word what is going to happen to people?

@divegeester

According to your Christianity there are millions, billions of people who going to be tortured for eternity by your version of the loving Jesus; if you got off your lazy ass and went into the street and preached you might help save a few. Instead you are in here making a foolishness of yourself and the gospel.

So perhaps I'll have to answer to the Lord Jesus why I didn't bring more to Christ.

And you'll have to explain to Him why you were ashamed of His words and slanderously hurled insults at believers and God.

By despising His words you worked to neutralize the urgency of the commanded response for Him dying on His cross for us.

@divegeester

Jesus spoke in parables.

So whenever we see the words "forever and ever" we should not take them seriously, but only parabolic-ally?

He shall not really reign forever and ever ? (Rev. 11:15).

Parables then? God and His Christ will not literally reign forever and ever?

@kellyjay said
So you take Him at His Word what is going to happen to people?

No, he was speaking in parables.

How many times do I have to say it!!

@sonship said
@divegeester

Jesus spoke in parables.

So whenever we see the words "forever and ever" we should not take them seriously, but only parabolic-ally?

He shall not really reign forever and ever ? (Rev. 11:15).

Parables then? God and His Christ will not literally reign forever and ever?

What you believe is up to you.

What you take from the bible as being literal is up to you

If you chose to take the parable of Jesus as being literal accounts of people then that is up to you.

If you choose to believe that the God of the universe finds himself in a position where he has premeditated the eternal torture of billions of people, and you choose to justify this as being some sort of “perfect justice”... then that is up to you.

In my opinion you are wrong. You have been fed lies and you have chosen to swallow them.

@divegeester said
No, he was speaking in parables.

How many times do I have to say it!!

He spoke in parables, that is not saying He always did.

Was this a parable? Or is scripture lying?

Revelation 21:7-8 English Standard Version (ESV)
7 The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

@kellyjay said
He spoke in parables, that is not saying He always did.

Was this a parable? Or is scripture lying?

Revelation 21:7-8 English Standard Version (ESV)
7 The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Instead of dishonestly taking a piece of scripture out of its context to assess whether it is literal or not, why don’t you and I together look at the entire chapter and you tell me which parts are literal and which are metaphors. Have you got the courage to do that KellyJay?

Here you go...

Revelation 21 New International Version (NIV)

A New Heaven and a New Earth
21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’[b] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

The New Jerusalem, the Bride of the Lamb
9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. 11 It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. 13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

15 The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls. 16 The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia[c] in length, and as wide and high as it is long. 17 The angel measured the wall using human measurement, and it was 144 cubits[d] thick.[e] 18 The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. 19 The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth onyx, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth turquoise, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst.[f] 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass.

22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

@divegeester said
Instead of dishonestly taking a piece of scripture out of its context to assess whether it is literal or not, why don’t you and I together look at the entire chapter and you tell me which parts are literal and which are metaphors. Have you got the courage to do that KellyJay?

Here you go...

Revelation 21 New International Version (NIV)

A New Heaven and a New Eart ...[text shortened]... es what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Real and true, now you.

@kellyjay said
Real and true, now you.

I didn't ask it about "real and true". Stop hiding!
I asked which parts are literal and which are not?

If you think it is ALL literal then say so, unequivocally.

You said some parts of Revelation are symbolic but you have yet to say which.

@divegeester said
I didn't ask it about "real and true". Stop hiding!
I asked which parts are literal and which are not?

If you think it is ALL literal then say so, unequivocally.

You said some parts of Revelation are symbolic but you have yet to say which.

Not hiding I believe the text as is with all that is in it. You attempting to pick out
parts you don't like, or suggest some of it isn't real and true, speak up. Are some
part of Revelation symbolic possibly, but again when it comes to what the reality
of things beyond this life isn't something I have been exposed to yet, it is
something we are both moving towards some day soon.

@kellyjay said
Not hiding I believe the text as is with all that is in it. You attempting to pick out
parts you don't like, or suggest some of it isn't real and true, speak up. Are some
part of Revelation symbolic possibly, but again when it comes to what the reality
of things beyond this life isn't something I have been exposed to yet, it is
something we are both moving towards some day soon.

Is Revelation all literal or not?
If not, which bits are metaphors/symbolism and why?

Please try to actually answer the questions!