Matthew 7:21-23

Originally posted by divegeester
Whereas you...

offer nothing but emptiness!

Originally posted by sonship
Topic of Discussion:

[b] "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who does the will of My Father who is in the heavens.

Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord was it not in Your name that we prophesied, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name did many mighty wo ...[text shortened]... ness." (Matt. 7:21-23, Recovery Version )

What do you think of this passage?[/b]

The entire point of the verse is in its summation where Christ states that despite claiming to be Christian he would reject those who are, 'workers of lawlessness'. Without understand what, 'workers of lawlessness', means then the passage cannot be fully understood. What did Christ mean? For the Christian there are only two laws, 'you must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart, mind, soul and strength and your neighbor as yourself'. How is it we demonstrate love for God? By bringing our lives into harmony with his revealed will. what is that will?

2 Peter 2 9, 'He does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance'.

This brings us to the second clause. How do we love our neighbor as ourselves? Did not Christ give the parable of the Good Samaritan who at his own expense demonstrated mercy by taking care of a man that was wounded? How do we also demonstrate love for our neighbor? Surely the primary way is by declaring the Good news of Gods Kingdom to them, so that they may be a recipient of the Kingdom blessings? In fact there is no greater demonstration of love than putting yourself out to help someone come to a knowledge of the Christ and his Kingdom. Lawlessness then is a failure to teach and preach the Good News of Gods Kingdom to our neighbors.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie

Surely the primary way is by declaring the Good news of Gods Kingdom to them, so that they may be a recipient of the Kingdom blessings? In fact there is no greater demonstration of love than putting yourself out to help someone come to a knowledge of the Christ and his Kingdom.

And you think that includes teaching that Christ is NOT the eternal God come to us as Jesus the Son of God, the Son of Man?

And you think it involves going back to the Old Testament and arguing that we serve Jehovah by remembering that Christ is only the first angel created by God ?

And you think this loving sharing the kingdom with your neighbor is warning him that the Holy Spirit is not God but only a power ?

This is the preaching of "another Jesus".

Originally posted by sonship

Surely the primary way is by declaring the Good news of Gods Kingdom to them, so that they may be a recipient of the Kingdom blessings? In fact there is no greater demonstration of love than putting yourself out to help someone come to a knowledge of the Christ and his Kingdom.

And you think that includes teaching that Christ is NOT the ...[text shortened]... Holy Spirit is not God but only a power ?

This is the preaching of [b]"another Jesus".[/b]

I resent your arrogance and presumptuousness. Who are you to judge the house servant of another the apostle asks? To his own God he will stand or fall and look, Jehovah can make him stand. I also resent your idolatry in worshiping a created entity, your inability to answer straightforward questions with regard to your dishonest use of inaccurate translation and your insistence on an extra biblical pagan doctrines, so don't tell me I preach another Jesus, you don't know Jesus because your path is blocked by arrogance, presumptuousness, dogma and willful ignorance. Do you understand you white washed grave!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I resent your arrogance and presumptuousness. Who are you to judge the house servant of another the apostle asks? To his own God he will stand or fall and look, Jehovah can make him stand. I also resent your idolatry in worshiping a created entity, your inability to answer straightforward questions with regard to your dishonest use of inaccurate tr ...[text shortened]... gance, presumptuousness, dogma and willful ignorance. Do you understand you white washed grave!

"A factious man, after the first and second admonition, refuse." (Titus 3:10)

You have received far more than the first and second admonition. And know that if you preach "another Jesus" I will judge you.

And your stating that worshiping Jesus Christ is idolatry I definitely judge, yet not I but the Bible, as blasphemy.

Saying worshipping the Son of God is idolatry is in direct rebellion against First John 5:20.

"And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding that we might know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

Little children keep yourselves from idols."

The true God apart from all idols is Him who is true in whom I am in; in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

You have just blasphemed Jehovah saying Jesus is an idol.
You will never see the kingdom of God unless you repent of your teaching that Jesus Christ is an idol.

You are in rebellion against God for preaching "another Jesus" and teaching that Christ is an idol.

Originally posted by sonship

it simply says that actual christian acts are more important than declaring yourself a christian and praising the lords name. that you have to actually practice what you preach.

"Christian acts" will never come out of an atheist.
The atheist who practices what he preaches will still die unjustified and condemned.

In the Gospel ...[text shortened]... n the redeeming blood of Christ poured out for the forgiveness of sins, to have a new beginning.

"Christian acts" will never come out of an atheist.
that's insulting.

"The atheist who practices what he preaches will still die unjustified and condemned."
that's your hateful nature talking

" Because you can POINT OUT the errors of others, does that make you one bit more righteous? "
just because you can type some words and press post, does that make you a debater? the answer is obvious

Originally posted by sonship
Topic of Discussion:

[b] "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who does the will of My Father who is in the heavens.

Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord was it not in Your name that we prophesied, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name did many mighty wo ...[text shortened]... ness." (Matt. 7:21-23, Recovery Version )

What do you think of this passage?[/b]

He never knew them so they weren't true believers.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
"Christian acts" will never come out of an atheist.
that's insulting.

"The atheist who practices what he preaches will still die unjustified and condemned."
that's your hateful nature talking

" Because you can POINT OUT the errors of others, does that make you one bit more righteous? "
just because you can type some words and press post, does that make you a debater? the answer is obvious

"Christian acts" will never come out of an atheist.
that's insulting.

This is not insulting if I count that Christian acts are not like a poodle waking on its hind legs like a man.

Christians acts is not the "do good" that you imagine. Christian acts I mean Christ living out of the man.

He said apart from Him we can do nothing. Or we can do a lot of things. But pertaining to the kingdom of God they will amount to nothing.

You see the mind of the unbeliever is at enmity with God. He has no peace toward God because he is at enmity in his mind towards God.

There is no middle ground. If you are at enmity with God, you are at enmity. Forget about you doing "Christian works" if you are at enmity with God.

A man does not have to purposely oppose God or rebel against Him in order to become an enemy of God. A long as you set your mind upon the fallen flesh, the old adamic damaged humanity, you are at enmity with God.

"Because the mind set on the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, for neither indeed can it be." (Rom. 8:7)

"And those who are in the flesh cannot please God" (v.8)

"For those who are according to the flesh mind the things of the flesh; but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the spirit [the regenerated inner kernel of his spiritual being[ is life and peace." (Rom. 8:7,8)

The mind gravitating to and fastened to the fallen adamic nature, whether doing good or doing bad, is at enmity against God. How can we speak then of Christian works from the fallen man who is standing in the position of being an enemy of God?

"The atheist who practices what he preaches will still die unjustified and condemned."
that's your hateful nature talking

No. This is my word of love to warn you how deep the fallen adamic nature has dragged men away from the will of God. You are getting the diagnoses that you need to realize how extensively and deeply you need Jesus Christ as your Savior.

It is not a word of hate at all.

" Because you can POINT OUT the errors of others, does that make you one bit more righteous? "

just because you can type some words and press post, does that make you a debater? the answer is obvious

Maybe I am not debating. In this case I am telling you faithfully, why Christ had to come and die and rise again - to save us from the guilt of sin and the power of sin.

If a man has terminal cancer, the telling of him of this is a faithful word for his benefit.

"Because out of the works of the law shall no flesh be justified before Him; for through the law is the clear knowledge of sin." (Rom 3:20) .

I am being your best friend by telling you the truth.
If you being at enmity with God think you have some "Christian works" that will be pleasing to God, you need to realize that if that were so the Son of God would not have come to die for you that you may be justified.

And He would not have risen to become in a form that He can come into your heart and live a life in union with you to bear the fruit that comes from abiding in Him.

Your best bet is to confess to God that you are a hopeless and helpless sinner who will not get it together in one more day. Rather you need the evil record of your sins washed totally away by His redeeming sacrifice for you.

And you need to learn to abide in the Spirit of Jesus Christ which God in saving you, will impart into your innermost spiritual being.

Then you can set your mind on the born again spirit where there is life and peace with God and live out the new life of Christ which God will impart into you.

From The Christian - Gospel Messages (1) from The Collected Works of Watchman Nee. (Living Stream Ministry, pg 655

Your conduct is a great proof that you are an enemy of God. You do not do what God wants, and you do what God does not want. Daily you commit many sins. Your evil acts are an expression of your inward enmity. You are "alienated and enemies in your mind because of your evil works" (Col. 1:21). Evil works! Sins! Defilements! These are indelible evidences of man being at enmity with God. The Scripture says, "There is none righteous, not even one" (Rom. 3:10). No flesh can justify itself before God. No one in the world can be justified before God through his works. All the conduct of the world is evil work in the eyes of God. Although a great deal of behavior is acceptable before men, in God's eyes it is still full of defects and part of the "evil works." Does your conduct before God tell you that you are at enmity with Him? Do not think that you are better than others. You have to realize that there are many evil works such as pride, vainglory, and self-justification in all of the so-called good works! Please acknowledge your poor condition, and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. There is still the possibility of salvation. But if you are self-satisfied and self-contented, you will die in your sins. May the Holy Spirit convict you of sin, so that you will realize your true condition! Unless those in the world put themselves in the place of a sinner and acknowledge that they are enemies of God, they cannot receive God's grace. Unless men confess that they cannot please God and that their nature, desires, and conduct are contrary to God, they will not and cannot come to the cross to seek for God's salvation. Unless men realize that it is terrible to be an enemy of God, and unless they are aware of the coming eternal wrath, they may say that they believe in Christ, but their believing will not be a true believing. What is man? Is he not but a speck of dust? Is he not but a worm? How small a place does he occupy in the universe! What is there to boast in? Who is God? He is the Almighty. Heaven is His throne, and the earth is His footstool. Trying to speak of His greatness would exhaust a man's lifetime. For a little mortal to be an enemy of the great God is not only unfortunate, but unthinkable. Can the world escape perdition when it is at enmity with God? No. The Bible says, "The wrath of God abides upon him" (John 3:36). Therefore, do not be deceived. Do not think that your outward behavior is very good. You have to realize that it is a fatal thing to be "enemies in your mind" (Col 1:21). Do not think that it is a small thing to be at enmity with God. Nothing is worse than this.

http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?cid=28

These verse also shows that good deeds don't save you!

But then again maybe these people had wrong motives?

Originally posted by RBHILL
These verse also shows that good deeds don't save you!

But then again maybe these people had wrong motives?

A. Entering the Narrow Gate
and Taking the Constricted Way

Verses 13 and 14 say, “Enter in through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter through it. For the gate is narrow and the way is constricted which leads to life, and few are those who find it.” Who can enter through the narrow gate spoken of in verse 13? Only the kingdom people with the nature described in the nine blessings in chapter five. Those who enter the narrow gate must be poor in spirit, mourning, meek, hungry and thirsty for righteousness, merciful, pure in heart, making peace with all men, willing to be persecuted for the sake of righteousness, and willing to be reproached for Christ. Only those with such a nature can enter through the narrow gate. Furthermore, those who enter through this narrow gate must be under the higher laws of the kingdom, the complemented and changed laws, and they should not have any anxiety concerning their living. Rather, they must have the confidence that their heavenly Father is taking care of them. Moreover, they should not be lazy or idle, but diligent and industrious. These are the people who enter through the narrow gate and walk on the constricted way.

This way is constricted, limited, on every side. The gate is narrow and the way is constricted because the new law of the kingdom is stricter and the demand of the kingdom is higher than that of the old covenant. It deals not only with outward conduct, but also with inward motive. The old man, the self, the flesh, the human concept, and the world with its glory are all excluded. Only that which corresponds to God’s will can enter in. The kingdom people need firstly to enter such a narrow gate and then to walk on such a constricted way. It is not walking the way first and then entering the gate. To enter the gate is simply to begin walking on the way, a way which is lifelong.

We all are happy to be in the Lord’s recovery and appreciate the recovery very much. But let me ask you this question: As one in the Lord’s recovery, are you walking on the constricted way? We all must be able to say that we are not taking the way of Christianity, but the way of constriction. We are constricted on every side. Those in Christianity can use rock music or other worldly methods in their services, but we cannot, because our way is constricted. All young people desire to be free, that is, to put off all restriction. When the young people graduate from high school, they are like caged birds wanting to be free. However, many are so free that they have no constriction, no restriction. We in the Lord’s recovery, on the contrary, are taking a constricted way. We must even have some restriction in the practice of pray-reading. In our pray-reading we should not be like worldly people at a ball game who have no restrictions. We in the Lord’s recovery must walk in our spirit. Living in spirit and walking in spirit restrict us. Even when we are loving, rejoicing, and happy, we must be under restriction. We must not be like those who throw off all restraint in their excitement. Rather, we must be excited within the limit of the spirit. This must even be true in the meetings. Although we may fully release our spirit, we should be restricted as far as physical activity is concerned. In everything, we need to take the constricted way, not the broad way.

We must take the constricted way in our fellowship with the brothers. Do you intend to praise a brother? You must praise him in a constricted way. Are you about to rebuke a brother? You must rebuke him in a constricted way. Are you having fellowship with some brothers? This is excellent, but you must fellowship with them in a constricted way. Sometimes when you are having fellowship, you forget all limitation. You go on hour after hour without taking care of the need for food or rest. Furthermore, in your fellowship you talk about everything from the archangel Michael, to Martin Luther, to all the brothers and sisters in the church. You fellowship about everyone without any restriction. Praise the Lord that we are truly free. Nevertheless, we still have the limitations, restrictions, and constrictions.

Consider the example of the Lord Jesus in John chapter seven. When His brothers proposed that He go into Judea and make Himself known to the public, the Lord said, “My time has not yet come, but your time is always ready” (John 7:6). The Lord’s word indicates that He was limited, that He was walking a constricted way. As the kingdom people, we also must walk on a constricted way. Our way is full of limitations, restrictions, and constrictions. But do not consider any limitation a frustration. Rather, the limitations will speed us on our way. If we refuse to be constricted, our progress will be slowed down. However, if we are willing to be limited and constricted, our speed will increase. After having passed through all the preceding six sections of the constitution, in the last section we are ushered through the narrow gate, and we are on the constricted way.

From The Life Study of Matthew by Witness Lee
http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n

Verse 22 says, “Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many works of power?” The words “that day” refer to the day of the judgment seat of Christ (1 Cor. 3:13, 4:5; 2 Cor. 5:10). On the day of judgment, when all the believers will stand before the judgment seat of Christ, many will say to the Lord that they prophesied, cast out demons, and did works of power in His name, but they will be rejected by the Lord.

2. Many Prophesying, Casting Out Demons, and Doing Many Works of Power in the Lord’s Name, but Not According to the Heavenly Father’s Will

3. The Lord Not Approving Them,
but Considering Them as Workers of Lawlessness

Verse 23 says, “And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from Me, workers of lawlessness.” Here the word “knew” means “approved.” The same Greek word in Romans 7:15 is translated “allowed” by the King James Version. In this verse Paul says, “For that which I do, I allow not.” The Lord never approved those who prophesied, cast out demons, and did many works of power in His name, but not according to the will of the heavenly Father (v. 21). The Lord did not deny that they did those things, but He considered those things as lawlessness because they were not done according to the will of the heavenly Father. They were not done in the line of the divine will. The Lord seemed to be saying, “You prophesied in My name, you cast out demons in My name, and you did many works of power in My name, but I never allowed you to do them. I never approved you because you did all those things in a lawless way. You did them in yourself, in your own desire, and according to your own intention, not according to the will of My Father.” Thus, those who do such things, even in the Lord’s name, will not enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but will depart from the Lord; that is, they will be rejected from the manifestation of the kingdom in the coming age.

We see from the Lord’s word here that certain works may be done in the Lord’s name, and yet not be done according to the will of God. Are you doing this kind of work, or are you doing God’s will? We have talked a great deal about going to the campuses, but are we going there to do a certain work, or to do the will of our heavenly Father? Young brothers and sisters, how would you answer this question? Are you going to the campuses to do the will of the heavenly Father? We must have the assurance in whatever we do, that we are doing the will of the heavenly Father. Otherwise, the Lord Jesus will say to us, “Workers of lawlessness.” Even prophesying in the Lord’s name, but not according to the will of the Father, is a type of lawlessness. Moreover, casting out demons in the Lord’s name and doing works of power in the name of the Lord, but not according to the will of God, are also considered in the eyes of the heavenly King as lawlessness.

The runners in any race must run in the proper lanes. Although you may run faster than others, your running will not be recognized if you run outside the lines of your lane. Rather, that type of running will be considered lawlessness. You must run the race between the lines, that is, you must run in a constricted way. Today the work of many Christian workers is not restricted by the heavenly lines. In their own eyes, they have done a great deal in the Lord’s name and for the Lord. In the eyes of the Lord, however, their work is a kind of transgression, a violation of the heavenly lines. Hence, their work is lawlessness. The Lord’s word in 7:21-23 is a strong word of warning to us all that we should not care only for prophesying, for casting out demons, or for works of power. We must take care of the heavenly lines. If you transgress the lines as a runner in the heavenly race, you will be disqualified. There are constricting lines in the Lord’s recovery, and we must be constricted in our running. If we run between the lines, not outside of them, we shall be approved by the Lord.

From The Life Study of Matthew by Witness Lee
http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n

Copied from Crucial Truths in the Holy Scriptures, Vol. 5

“Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens...Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, was it not in Your name that we prophesied, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name did many works of power? And then I will declare to them: I never knew you. Depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness” (Matt. 7:21-23).

This word was spoken during the Lord’s teaching on the mountain, so it does not refer to unbelievers who will go into eternal perdition but rather to believers who will not be able to enter the kingdom of the heavens. This group is not made up of unbelievers. We know they are saved because they call Him their Lord (cf. Rom. 10:13), and they serve the Lord and do good works in His name (which even the Lord does not deny). Although they are saved, they will not be able to enter the kingdom of the heavens when the Lord comes in that day because they did not work for the Lord according to God’s will. Although they did many good things, they did not do them according to the will of God. Although they worked in the Lord’s name, they did not do God’s will; instead, they acted contrary to God’s will. In the Lord’s eyes they are “workers of lawlessness.” This can be likened to a school that has a lights-out rule at ten o’clock. If some students study after ten, they are breaking the school rules, even though they may be doing something beneficial. In the school’s eyes, however, they are being lawless. Similarly, those who do a work for the Lord that is not according to God’s will are lawless in His eyes. Since their actions are not according to God’s will, He does not know or approve of them.

The Greek for “never knew” in verse 23 is translated “do not acknowledge” in Romans 7:15. In the King James Version it is translated “allow not,” and in Darby’s version and Berry’s Greek-English interlinear version, which is based on Stephen’s Greek text, it is translated “do not own.” In Romans 7:15 Paul says, “What I work out, I do not acknowledge.” According to the context of this verse, what Paul works out is not something that he allows, owns, or approves of because “what I will, this I do not practice; but what I hate, this I do” (v. 15). Since he does what he hates, he certainly does not allow, own, or approve of it. Similarly, the Lord considers those who are not working according to God’s will to be lawless, and He does not acknowledge, allow, own, or approve of them. Therefore, they will be refused by the Lord and will not be able to enter the kingdom of the heavens. This will be the end of every worker for the Lord who does not work according to the will of God; it will be the punishment they receive.

“Saved through faith...not of works” (Eph. 2:8-9; see also 2 Tim. 1:9); compare with “Not everyone...will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who does the will of My Father who is in the heavens” (Matt. 7:21).

Ephesians 2:8-9 and 2 Timothy 1:9 both say that salvation is entirely by God’s grace, not by works. This grace was given in Christ by God to us before the ages, before any of our works had been done, so it is completely unrelated to our works. Matthew 7:21 tells us we must do works that carry out the will of the Father in order to enter the kingdom of the heavens. Thus, this also shows that entering the kingdom of the heavens is different from being eternally saved.

“Whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Rom. 10:13); compare with “Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens” (Matt. 7:21).

Romans 10:13 says that whoever calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved. Calling upon the Lord’s name in this verse is related to faith. As long as we believe in our heart and confess the Lord’s name with our mouth, we will be saved. We do not need to do anything else to be saved. Believing in the Lord and confessing with our mouth are sufficient for our salvation.

In contrast Matthew 7:21 says that not everyone who says, “Lord, Lord,” will enter into the kingdom of the heavens. This is very different from Romans 10:13, which says that calling on the Lord’s name is all that is needed for salvation. According to the verse in Matthew 7, a person who calls, “Lord, Lord,” may not be able to enter the kingdom of the heavens. While it is enough to call upon the name of the Lord for salvation, this is not sufficient to ensure that one will enter the kingdom of the heavens; it is also necessary to do the will of God. Thus, these two portions of the Bible also show that being eternally saved and entering the kingdom of the heavens are two different things.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I resent your arrogance and presumptuousness. Who are you to judge the house servant of another the apostle asks? To his own God he will stand or fall and look, Jehovah can make him stand. I also resent your idolatry in worshiping a created entity, your inability to answer straightforward questions with regard to your dishonest use of inaccurate tr ...[text shortened]... gance, presumptuousness, dogma and willful ignorance. Do you understand you white washed grave!

Hate much?