1. Standard membersonship
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    02 Jun '15 09:24
    Topic of Discussion:

    "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who does the will of My Father who is in the heavens.

    Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord was it not in Your name that we prophesied, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name did many mighty works of power?

    And then I will declare to them: I never knew you. Depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness." (Matt. 7:21-23, Recovery Version )


    What do you think of this passage?
  2. Standard memberRajk999
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    02 Jun '15 09:30
    Originally posted by sonship
    Topic of Discussion:

    [b] "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who does the will of My Father who is in the heavens.

    Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord was it not in Your name that we prophesied, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name did many mighty wo ...[text shortened]... ness." (Matt. 7:21-23, Recovery Version )


    What do you think of this passage?[/b]
    It speaks for itself and is written is simple clear language. Nothing to interpret.
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    02 Jun '15 10:07
    Originally posted by sonship
    Topic of Discussion:

    [b] "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who does the will of My Father who is in the heavens.

    Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord was it not in Your name that we prophesied, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name did many mighty wo ...[text shortened]... ness." (Matt. 7:21-23, Recovery Version )


    What do you think of this passage?[/b]
    it means those who say the genocides of the old testament were righteous fall into the sycophants that say "Lord, Lord". it takes strength of character to realize they were disgusting acts and to proclaim as such. And of course, to never condone such acts in the future, no matter how much some say they kill in god's name.
  4. Joined
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    02 Jun '15 11:16
    Originally posted by sonship
    Topic of Discussion:

    [b] "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who does the will of My Father who is in the heavens.

    Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord was it not in Your name that we prophesied, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name did many mighty wo ...[text shortened]... ness." (Matt. 7:21-23, Recovery Version )


    What do you think of this passage?[/b]
    One thing it means is that it more important to be known by God than it is to go to church.
  5. Standard membersonship
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    02 Jun '15 13:401 edit
    "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who does the will of My Father who is in the heavens" (v.21)


    To enter into the kingdom of the heavens, we need to do two things; call on the Lord and do the will of the heavenly Father. To call on the Lord suffices us to be saved (Rom. 10:13), but to enter into the kingdom of the heavens, we also need to do the will of the heavenly Father. Hence, not everyone who says, "Lord, Lord" will enter into the kingdom of the heavens' but those who call on the Lord and do the will of the heavenly Father will enter in.

    Since entering into the kingdom of the heavens requires doing the will of the heavenly Father, it is clearly different from entering into the kingdom of God through regeneration (John 3:3,5). The latter entrance is gained through being born of the divine life; the former, through the living of that life.

    [ Footnote 21(1) on Matt. 7:21, Recovery Version ]
  6. SubscriberSuzianne
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    02 Jun '15 14:45
    I find it fascinating that everyone who offered a "what-it-means" post interpreted it through their own narrow lens of what their own biases dictate.
  7. Standard membersonship
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    02 Jun '15 15:06
    The warning is that we may prophesy, cast out demons, perform mighty works supposedly in the name of Jesus. But these are done in a lawless way.

    We dare not restrict it to the three things Jesus mentioned just as representative. But what He did mention is extraordinary.

    Wouldn't you think to be able to cast out demons in the name of Jesus would be approved by God? But history has shown that such things can be done in a lawless way not taking into account the Father's will.

    To prophesy is generally to speak for God. It may not be prediction. The warning is that we could speak alledgedly on behalf of God yet do so lawlessly, not taking into account the Father's heart, the Father's righteous manner, and the Father's desire.

    The kingdom of the heavens is not the kingdom IN heaven. It does not mean heaven. It means the kingdom whose source and whose origin is from heaven and not of the earth.

    To enter in is like the running of a race which has specific lanes to run in. You cannot just run wild and take short cuts. You cannot run the kingdom race loosely disregarding the Father's will, the Father's "flavor", the Father's motive and intention.

    " And then I will declare to them: I never knew you. Depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness." (v.23)


    This word "I never knew you" means He never approved. He knew what they did. He allowed them to do what they did. He never approved, He never acknowledged their lawless methods. Their methods were not of the Father's heart.

    All the previous teaching from chapter 5 has elaborated the nature of the kingdom people. All of the previous teaching conveyed the principles of the Father's will.
  8. Joined
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    02 Jun '15 15:45
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    I find it fascinating that everyone who offered a "what-it-means" post interpreted it through their own narrow lens of what their own biases dictate.
    Whereas you...
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    02 Jun '15 16:50
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    I find it fascinating that everyone who offered a "what-it-means" post interpreted it through their own narrow lens of what their own biases dictate.
    you're right, we should have interpreted it through your lens. the right lens
  10. Standard memberredbadger
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    02 Jun '15 16:54
    Originally posted by sonship
    Topic of Discussion:

    [b] "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who does the will of My Father who is in the heavens.

    Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord was it not in Your name that we prophesied, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name did many mighty wo ...[text shortened]... ness." (Matt. 7:21-23, Recovery Version )


    What do you think of this passage?[/b]
    BULDUST
  11. Joined
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    02 Jun '15 16:56
    Originally posted by sonship
    The warning is that we may prophesy, cast out demons, perform mighty works supposedly in the name of Jesus. But these are done in a lawless way.

    We dare not restrict it to the three things Jesus mentioned just as representative. But what He did mention is extraordinary.

    Wouldn't you think to be able to cast out demons in the name of Jesus would be a ...[text shortened]... f the kingdom people. All of the previous teaching conveyed the principles of the Father's will.
    it simply says that actual christian acts are more important than declaring yourself a christian and praising the lords name. that you have to actually practice what you preach.

    for example, tea baggers that praise the lord in every sentence while refusing to give to the poor and/or hating those different than them fit perfectly.

    what you say is beyond the point. way beyond.
  12. Standard membersonship
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    02 Jun '15 17:34
    Concerning doing the Father's will in Matthew 7 we can see that this depends on having a certain NATURE which God implants within the disciples of Jesus.

    This change of nature will grow and spontaneously produce the fruits worthy of the kingdom of the heavens.

    "Do men gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?

    Even so every good tree produces good fruit, but the corrupt tree produces bad fruit.

    A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit." (Matt. 7:16b-18)


    This is a teaching about the NATURE of the kingdom of the heavens people. By life nature worthy fruits will spontaneously be produced. So the emphasis is on allowing God to change one's nature.

    Immediately after this saying He teaches about doing the will of the Father to enter into the kingdom of the heavens.

    "Every tree that does not produce good fruit is cut down and cast into the fire. (v.19)

    So then, by their fruits you will recognize them. (v.20)

    Not everyone who who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who does the will of My Father who is in the heavens." (v.21)


    The nature is a spreading, growing, permeating, and saturating matter. Birth is not the end. Birth is only the beginning. There is the need for the seed of the kingdom life to grow and spread more and more throughout the believer's personality. This is by patience and by a life long process.

    Fruits out from the new nature will spontaneously grow if the nature is allowed to fill up one's living. The entering into the kingdom of the heavens in verse 21 is a matter or reward for having lived by the growing and spreading nature of divine life.

    He is speaking of the reward of the millennial kingdom of 1,000 years immediately following the second coming of Christ. Having been begotten by the begetting Father, God's will is that they would live by the indwelling Father's life as His sons.
  13. Standard membersonship
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    02 Jun '15 18:00
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    it simply says that actual christian acts are more important than declaring yourself a christian and praising the lords name. that you have to actually practice what you preach.


    "Christian acts" will never come out of an atheist.
    The atheist who practices what he preaches will still die unjustified and condemned.

    In the Gospel of John that is very easy to see. But where in the Gospel of Matthew can we see it? We can see it when Jesus speaks of His redemptive death for the forgivness of sins:

    " And He took a cup and gave thanks and gave it to them, saying, Drink of it, all of you, For this is My blood of the covenant, which is being poured out for the forgiveness of sins." (Matt. 26:28)


    We have to discriminate between receiving the forgiveness of sins for eternal redemption and the gift of eternal life and the entering into the kingdom of the heavens as a reward.

    Don't trust any kind of explanation that doing the Father's will does not need the forgiveness of sins through believing for one's self the redemptive sacrifice of Jesus.

    His name is called Jesus because He will save His people from their sins.

    "And she will bear a son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for it is He who will save His people from their sins." (Matt. 1:21)


    No teaching is reliable that a person refusing to one of "His people" will be saved. Anyone rejecting and refusing to be one of "His people" has no promise that they will be saved from their sins. For the FIRST item of the will of the Father is that we be cleansed from our sins in the blood of Jesus and be saved from eternal judgment.

    for example, tea baggers that praise the lord in every sentence while refusing to give to the poor and/or hating those different than them fit perfectly.


    For some reason this passage in Matthew 7:21-23 is one of those passages the self confident like to grasp and say something like "Yea, Get em! Get em Jesus! You know ... THOSE ones. You know THOSE OTHER GUYS over there. Those religious ones that I am better than."

    Because you can POINT OUT the errors of others, does that make you one bit more righteous? No it does not. That is what we call "the knowledge of good and evil" . And it is something that man is very proud of.

    Just because you can point out the moral failures of other people does not necessarily mean you are one once, one bit more righteous before God.

    Matthew 7:21-23 is not a passage that a Christian should always read for OTHER people. He or she could read it considering their own walk before God.

    And the person not yet having receive Jesus as Lord should first ask to be cleansed from his sins in the redeeming blood of Christ poured out for the forgiveness of sins, to have a new beginning.
  14. Standard memberRajk999
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    02 Jun '15 18:08
    Originally posted by sonship
    Concerning doing the Father's will in [b]Matthew 7 we can see that this depends on having a certain NATURE which God implants within the disciples of Jesus.

    This change of nature will grow and spontaneously produce the fruits worthy of the kingdom of the heavens.

    [quote] "Do men gather grapes from thorns, or figs from t ...[text shortened]... egetting Father, God's will is that they would live by the indwelling Father's life as His sons.
    Implant???
    You have a verse for that?
  15. Standard membersonship
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    02 Jun '15 18:191 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Implant???
    You have a verse for that?


    You referred to the book before yourself - James.

    James 1:21

    English Standard Version
    Therefore put away all filthiness and rampant wickedness and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.

    New American Standard Bible
    Therefore, putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls.

    King James Bible
    Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
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