03 Jul 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Proper Knobdo I 'believe', homosexuality to be a habit? as in smoking copious amounts of cannabis or playing blitz on ICC for days on an end? or both? you need to be more specific Noobster, for when we think of habit it throws up connotation like habitual, as in an addiction. I dunno, do you think its a habit? i would term it a practice, whether its a habit, i cannot say at this moment in time.
Robbie, do you believe homosexuality to be a 'habit'?
also i would like to know, why, if i do not accept its practice, why i am termed a homophobe and a bigot, if you please.
03 Jul 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieUnfortunately many Christians seem to hold similar opinions even though in doing so blatantly ignore the many warnings against hypocrisy given by Jesus such as the following:
oh, touchy touchy touchy, i thought that you had aspirations of going to heaven and becoming 'sexless', as one of the angels. 😉
1 "Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2 For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye."
What are they but modern day Pharisees?
03 Jul 09
3 edits
Originally posted by ThinkOfOnedo you have aspirations of going to heaven to become a 'sexless', angel? I dont!
Unfortunately many Christians seem to hold similar opinions even though in doing so blatantly ignore the many warnings against hypocrisy given by Jesus such as the following:
[b]1 "Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2 For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you look o take the speck out of your brother’s eye."
What are they but modern day Pharisees?[/b]
03 Jul 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI'll tell you, but first of all, what's with always asking the same question back to the person who asked it originally? Very strange.
do I 'believe', homosexuality to be a habit? as in smoking copious amounts of cannabis or playing blitz on ICC for days on an end? or both? you need to be more specific Noobster, for when we think of habit it throws up connotation like habitual, as in an addiction. I dunno, do you think its a habit? i would term it a practice, whether its a habit, ...[text shortened]... why, if i do not accept its practice, why i am termed a homophobe and a bigot, if you please.
Homosexuality isn't a choice, either you are gay or you are not. It's not something that people can pick or choose like a habit (habit being the word jaywill used in his/her post to describe a long list of sins). So therefore your beliefs are condemning people for something they have no choice over.
As i've said in another post subsitute the word gay for Black or Jew and see how comfortable that sits?! I'm sure i've read in one of your posts you have an Asian wife? I have no doubt you abhor racism? Race isn't a choice and racism should be dealt with harshly, i feel the same about sexuality and homophobia. In both instances race and sexuality aren't a matter of choice.
What do you mean by 'i don't accept it's practise'?
03 Jul 09
Originally posted by Proper KnobI have not condemned them, they are free to practice as they wish, I have not imposed upon their freedom in any way, yet i find it really ironic, that through the free exercise of my conscience in this matter, that i should be termed a homophobe and a bigot. all that i have asserted is that i do not accept it, it does not in any way mean that others cannot accept it! why should i impose my conscience on you? Nor do i accept the argument that it is not a choice, for to do so would mean that every single homosexual is pre determined at conception in that they shall become a practising homosexual, are you really adamant that i should give credence to this idea? No, i don't think so.
I'll tell you, but first of all, what's with always asking the same question back to the person who asked it originally? Very strange.
Homosexuality isn't a choice, either you are gay or you are not. It's not something that people can pick or choose like a habit (habit being the word jaywill used in his/her post to describe a long list of sins). So th ...[text shortened]... aren't a matter of choice.
What do you mean by 'i don't accept it's practise'?
03 Jul 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieLet me get this stright.
I have not condemned them, they are free to practice as they wish, I have not imposed upon their freedom in any way, yet i find it really ironic, that through the free exercise of my conscience in this matter, that i should be termed a homophobe and a bigot. all that i have asserted is that i do not accept it, it does not in any way mean that others ...[text shortened]... osexual, are you really adamant that i should give credence to this idea? No, i don't think so.
You think homosexuality is a choice?
03 Jul 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Proper Knobnope, its an over simplification, there as you are aware, many factors which contribute to the practice of homosexuality, the old nature or nurture arguments, the environmental factors , moral inclination and choice etc etc etc.
Let me get this stright.
You think homosexuality is a choice?
03 Jul 09
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobie"I have not condemned them, they are free to practice as they wish, I have not imposed upon their freedom in any way,
I have not condemned them, they are free to practice as they wish, I have not imposed upon their freedom in any way, yet i find it really ironic, that through the free exercise of my conscience in this matter, that i should be termed a homophobe and a bigot. all that i have asserted is that i do not accept it, it does not in any way mean that others ...[text shortened]... osexual, are you really adamant that i should give credence to this idea? No, i don't think so.
This is a lie.
You support their removal from the congregation as evidenced in the following, so you do believe in imposing upon their freedom in at least one way. In a way where you judge their sin more harshly than your own. This kind of hypocrisy shows you to be a "homophobe and a bigot". Take the log out of your own eye so that you may see.
"if the person is willing to bring their lives into harmony with Biblical principles then all is well, they are washed clean, if however they are aware of the principles, yet insist on establishing their own criteria, then remove the man from among yourselves Paul stated, thus the 'chastity' of the congregation which is due the Christ, in relation to biblical principles may be maintained"
03 Jul 09
Originally posted by Proper Knobyes noobster i see the point you are trying to make, but i do not accept it, it is very old hat and reflective of the propaganda at the time, where the homosexual movement aligned themselves with such minorities, claiming they were a 'persecuted minority', which may have been the case, but it can no longer be held to be valid. the main thrust of the argumentation was that 'homosexuality', is predetermined, through genetics and hormones, still in dispute, even more so than when it was heralded in the 1970s!, as reported by Scientific American, and i quote, “strongly suggests that environment contributes significantly to sexual orientation.”, therefore your argument that it is akin to being black or Jewish is invalid, for a black dude has no choice, (unless you are Michael Jackson and can afford to become, instead of a poor black boy, a rich white women! Homosexuals can and do change their sexual orientation, do they not?
I do not accept the practise of someone being Black.
I do not accept the practise of Jewry
I do not accept the practise od homosexuality.
Do you see the point i'm trying to make Robbie?
What is'the practise of homosexuality'?
03 Jul 09
2 edits
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneyes but there are greater issue here than my conscience or their sexual preferences, that being the sanctity of the congregation. We must obey God as ruler rather than men, if it states in his word that anyone who contravenes the sanctity of the congregation by persistent practice which are contrary to bible principles, then it is not my conscience that is at work. If they are removed, you can rest assured, that it was through their own volition.
[b]"I have not condemned them, they are free to practice as they wish, I have not imposed upon their freedom in any way,
This is a lie.
You support their removal from the congregation as evidenced in the following, so you do believe in imposing upon their freedom in at least one way. In a way where you judge their sin more harshly than your own gation which is due the Christ, in relation to biblical principles may be maintained[/b]"[/b]
and for goodness sake will you stop quoting that scripture as if it did not apply to you!
03 Jul 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieDoes lying "obey God as ruler rather than men"? Is lying "contrary to bible priciples"? Is lying something you have done in the past and continue to do? If so, then it is a "persistent practice". Would not your own removal then be "through [your] own volition"? Would you advocate your own removal? If not, is this not the hypocrisy that Jesus warns about?
yes but there are greater issue here than my conscience or their sexual preferences, that being the sanctity of the congregation. We must obey God as ruler rather than men, if it states in his word that anyone who contravenes the sanctity of the congregation by persistent practice which are contrary to bible principles, then it is not my conscience ...[text shortened]... is at work. If they are removed, you can rest assured, that it was through their own volition.
03 Jul 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhat i suprise you don't accept it. You still haven't told me what the 'practise of homosexuality is that you don't accept. Are we talking about anal sex Robbie?
yes noobster i see the point you are trying to make, but i do not accept it, it is very old hat and reflective of the propaganda at the time, where the homosexual movement aligned themselves with such minorities, claiming they were a 'persecuted minority', which may have been the case, but it can no longer be held to be valid. the main thrust of the ...[text shortened]... y, a rich white women! Homosexuals can and do change their sexual orientation, do they not?
I have heard of gay people going straight, but i've heard and know far more people who have gone from straight to gay.
No longer a persucited minority? What about the case of the Gay Pride parade in Moscow a year or so ago where thugs turned up and beat the people taking part, and the police turned a blind eye and at worst joined in?? Gays might not be persecuted in the UK so much anymore, but it's still a major problem in other pats of the world.
From what i've read the latest studies seem to indicate homosexuality is more genetic based than environment.
03 Jul 09
4 edits
Originally posted by Proper Knob=======================================
I'll tell you, but first of all, what's with always asking the same question back to the person who asked it originally? Very strange.
Homosexuality isn't a choice, either you are gay or you are not. It's not something that people can pick or choose like a habit (habit being the word jaywill used in his/her post to describe a long list of sins). So th aren't a matter of choice.
What do you mean by 'i don't accept it's practise'?
Homosexuality isn't a choice, either you are gay or you are not. It's not something that people can pick or choose like a habit (habit being the word jaywill used in his/her post to describe a long list of sins). So therefore your beliefs are condemning people for something they have no choice over.
========================================
Two questions sir.
Firstly, did you read and somewhat understand my post about etenal redemption being available to all sinners, including homosexuals ?
Secondly, what difference to the New Testament does it make if homosexuality is a choice or not ? Either way it is listed with a number of sins from which man can be saved.
Once again, Paul's list of the "works of the flesh" in Galatians 5.
"And the works of the flesh are manifest, which are such things as fornication, uncleaness, lascviviousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, factions, divisions, sects, envyings,bouts of drunkeness, carousings, and things like these ..." (See Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Cor. 6:9, Eph. 5:5)
It doesn't matter if I say "But I did not choose to be fornicator. I was born one" or "But I didn't choose to be a thief. I was born a thief and am one by nature" or "But being a drunken person was not my choice. It is just a nature I was born with" or "But I didn't choose to be a sectarian and divisive person. I was born into this denomination"
( Maybe you thought I'd leave that last one out. )
Because of the fall of man, we are born with a sinning nature. We all could make the case that we didn't choose our particular sin but were born with that nature.
To the salvation of Christ it doesn't make a difference. The preceeding verse 16 says "But I say, Walk by the Spirit and you shall by no means fulfill the lust of the flesh."
Here's the point. God can give is Jesus Christ Himself to be installed in our being. "The last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45).
Paul is teaching the disciples in Galatia that Christ Jesus as the Spirit has been dispensed into them and they must learn to "walk by the Spirit" actually making Christ's sinless life their own. Then we can overcome the "lust of the flesh" which is the same here as "the works of the flesh".
Saying "But I was born this way" is not relevant. Either way the Christian must learn to "walk by the Spirit".
03 Jul 09
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneyes i would advocate my own removal in order to keep the congregation clean, no problemo, yes lying is contrary to Biblical principles, but as i have shown you, these principles are more important than my conscience.
Does lying "obey God as ruler rather than men"? Is lying "contrary to bible priciples"? Is lying something you have done in the past and continue to do? If so, then it is a "persistent practice". Would not your own removal then be "through [your] own volition"? Would you advocate your own removal? If not, is this not the hypocrisy that Jesus warns about?