Michael Jackson / Jesus Christ....

Originally posted by galveston75
I've been a Witness for 46 years and no one has ever controlled my mind or any other Witnesses I've ever known. I would never allow that to happen to myself or to others.
And again your info about the Witnesses is wrong as usual...

I dont know what info is wrong as you refuse to make a rebuttal statement.

Lets recap :

- I have found that some JWs in my area claim that JWs are very controlling.
- I produced a few quotes from the virtual hundreds of websites on JWs mentioning the same problem of indoctrination
- JWs themselves in their own Watchtower website has mentioned that they are the only true Christian religion.

Yet all you can say is that JWs have not controlled YOU.
This is not about YOU. Please remove yourself from the situation and stand back from the scene and see objectively what many others have found to be true about JW's mind control methods.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I dont know what info is wrong as you refuse to make a rebuttal statement.

Lets recap :

- I have found that some JWs in my area claim that JWs are very controlling.
- I produced a few quotes from the virtual hundreds of websites on JWs mentioning the same problem of indoctrination
- JWs themselves in their own Watchtower website has mentioned that t ...[text shortened]... ene and see objectively what many others have found to be true about JW's mind control methods.

You either understand Jehovah's ways and the Bible or you don't..

Originally posted by Rajk999
That 'nazi' comment refers specifically to the extreme mind control Nazi's used. JWs are also guilty of extreme mind control. I know many JWs in my area and the people say that they are not allowed to read other religious material etc.

Here is a quote from Wiki:

".... is designed to exercise control over every aspect of the lives of Jehovah's Witnes interpretations can circulate without having to confront any challenge."

you must answer the question Raj, was it brainwashing which led those people to willingly give up their lives rather than compromise their integrity to the God that they worship by taking up arms against another human being? if not, then it must be some other guiding mechanism, of which the only thing that springs to mind, is the exercise of the human conscience.

Well that's what the Beetle's said; that they were more famous than Jesus, but who do you hear more about these days? Jesus of course.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I dont know what info is wrong as you refuse to make a rebuttal statement.

Lets recap :

- I have found that some JWs in my area claim that JWs are very controlling.
- I produced a few quotes from the virtual hundreds of websites on JWs mentioning the same problem of indoctrination
- JWs themselves in their own Watchtower website has mentioned that t ...[text shortened]... ene and see objectively what many others have found to be true about JW's mind control methods.

I can relate to some of what you are saying. I have met a few JW's and other than disagreeing with some of their theology, such as Jesus Christ being the archeangel Michael and for which there is no Biblical evidence, I found that the organization is very controlling. One guy who comes to mind that I spoke to was one of the nicest men I have ever met yet he said things like the JW's were the only "true" religion and he was not allowed to read the Bible by himself without being along side one of their religious tracts explaining it all. From my experiences, cults form when the focus is an organization/personality instead of God and from all indications this would qualify.

Originally posted by whodey
I can relate to some of what you are saying. I have met a few JW's and other than disagreeing with some of their theology, such as Jesus Christ being the archeangel Michael and for which there is no Biblical evidence, I found that the organization is very controlling. One guy who comes to mind that I spoke to was one of the nicest men I have ever met yet he ...[text shortened]... s is an organization/personality instead of God and from all indications this would qualify.

then you also must answer the question that was posed to Raj, was it brain controlling which led those people to willingly be incarcerated for their stance or was it a more potent guiding principle.

Originally posted by whodey
I can relate to some of what you are saying. I have met a few JW's and other than disagreeing with some of their theology, such as Jesus Christ being the archeangel Michael and for which there is no Biblical evidence, I found that the organization is very controlling. One guy who comes to mind that I spoke to was one of the nicest men I have ever met yet he ...[text shortened]... s is an organization/personality instead of God and from all indications this would qualify.

Sorry that this gentleman has missrepresented the Witnesses. There are some as in all religions that for whatever reson condemn their own religion. But the statement he made is not true. Their are 7 million Witnesses that will disagree with that too.
The doors at the Kingdom Halls in every country are open to the public that would like to see for themselves if this is true.

Originally posted by daniel58
Well that's what the Beetle's said; that they were more famous than Jesus, but who do you hear more about these days? Jesus of course.

Jesus is the son of God, and all, but he doesn't have as many no1 albums.😛

Originally posted by generalissimo
Jesus is the son of God, and all, but he doesn't have as many no1 albums.😛

He's not a main stream artist, its hard for those "indie" groups to break through

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
then you also must answer the question that was posed to Raj, was it brain controlling which led those people to willingly be incarcerated for their stance or was it a more potent guiding principle.

Just a point of clarification: Many other Christian and non-Christian groups have exhibited similar convictions and courage. it doesn't mean their doctrine is more correct. Tha Amish would have behaved similarly, yet the JW and Annabaptist doctrines are lightyears apart.


Still...it took great courage and moral conviction

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
then you also must answer the question that was posed to Raj, was it brain controlling which led those people to willingly be incarcerated for their stance or was it a more potent guiding principle.

I dont understand why you are harping on this question but my answer to "..was it brain controlling which led those people to willingly be incarcerated for their stance .."

.. is probably not. They were guided by their conscience which allows them to distinguish right from wrong. And this conscience is not unique to Jehovah Witnesses. Its in all people. At various times many have refused to participate in acts they think are wrong.

Could you explain what this has to do with the points I made in my post. And the points Whodey made as well.

But Im not really optimistic that your response will make sense but here is what Wiki said again in summary and this is confirmed by the experience of those within the organisation :

1. is designed to exercise control over every aspect of the lives of Jehovah's Witnesses

2. wrong for them to question anything the Watchtower Society publishes as truth.

3. Witnesses are encouraged to feel dependent on "the organization", are discouraged from engaging in independent Bible study

4. told they are incapable of understanding the scriptures without its involvement.


I cant seem to find the actual quote but the founder .. Russell I think.. said that it is better for people to read his books than to read the Bible.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I dont understand why you are harping on this question but my answer to "..was it brain controlling which led those people to willingly be incarcerated for their stance .."

.. is probably not. They were guided by their conscience which allows them to distinguish right from wrong. And this conscience is not unique to Jehovah Witnesses. Its in all p ssell I think.. said that it is better for people to read his books than to read the Bible.

They were guided by their conscience which allows them to distinguish right from wrong - thank you Raj,

now you will be pleased to answer, what guided their conscience?, was it a self examination and process of elimination, killing is bad, i cannot do it, was it the watchtower society and their brainwashing publications, yes i am being brainwashed, but i want to die anyway, or was it Gods word the Bible, yes i understand that the teachings of Christ rule out taking another human life, which was it!

Originally posted by duecer
Just a point of clarification: Many other Christian and non-Christian groups have exhibited similar convictions and courage. it doesn't mean their doctrine is more correct. Tha Amish would have behaved similarly, yet the JW and Annabaptist doctrines are lightyears apart.


Still...it took great courage and moral conviction

yes, i do not deny it Deucer, in fact, I am even sure there was a cardinal of the Catholic church, i forget his name, who also spoke out against the tyranny, perhaps Conrad knows the details? as well as other conscientious objectors.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
They were guided by their conscience which allows them to distinguish right from wrong - thank you Raj,

now you will be pleased to answer, what guided their conscience?, was it a self examination and process of elimination, killing is bad, i cannot do it, was it the watchtower society and their brainwashing publications, yes i am being brainwashe ...[text shortened]... yes i understand that the teachings of Christ rule out taking another human life, which was it!

In the garden of Eden, when they partook of the tree, the knowledge of good and bad, and right and wrong was bestowed upon humanity

Originally posted by galveston75
You either understand Jehovah's ways and the Bible or you don't..

If you claim that Christ is Michael the Archangel and the 144,000 are spiritual Jews when the Bible clearly does not support any such doctrine, then clearly you dont understand the Bible. You understand the teachings of a man called Charles Taze Russell.