Michael the archangel revisited

Originally posted by RJHinds
That's a funny word play. 😀

But how does it make your opinion that Michael the archangel is actually Jesus credible?

because I provided reason!

Originally posted by RJHinds
God was revealed in the flesh of Jesus, according to this verse as well as John 1:14, I believe it is without looking it up. That make Jesus equal to God in all those verses. The Father is also equal to God and the Holy Spirit is also equal to God. None of that prevents the Father from be greater than Jesus or Jesus being given all authority, since the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him bodily.

according to John 1:18 no one has seen God at any time.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
according to John 1:18 no one has seen God at any time.

“I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared” (Genesis 32:30).

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
“I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared” (Genesis 32:30).

An interesting point, however,

“Face to face” may denote intimate association or communication. Thus, Moses was privileged to have such a close relationship with God and be used so powerfully by God that he is referred to as a prophet “whom Jehovah knew face to face.” (De 34:10-12) While it is said that Moses beheld “the appearance of Jehovah” and that Jehovah spoke to him “mouth to mouth,” yet Moses never saw Jehovah’s face literally. Rather, as the context shows, it was God’s speaking through angelic spokesmen to Moses in open, verbal communication (instead of by visions or dreams) that gave the basis for such expression. (Nu 12:6-8; Ex 33:20; Ac 7:35, 38; Ga 3:19; compare Ge 32:24-30; Ho 12:3, 4.) Moses recalled to Israel that God spoke “face to face” with them, since they heard the loud voice at Sinai, though none of them actually saw Jehovah.—De 5:4; 4:11-15; Heb 12:19.

jw.org (peace be upon it)

After he begot Methuselah, Enoch walked with God three hundred years, and had sons and daughters. And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him. (Genesis 5:22, 24)

So the LORD spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. And he would return to the camp, but his servant Joshua the son of Nun, a young man, did not depart from the tabernacle. (Exodus 33:11)

Then the LORD appeared to Abram and said, “To your descendants I will give this land.” And there he built an altar to the LORD, who had appeared to him. (Genesis 12:7)

And the LORD visited Sarah as He had said, and the LORD did for Sarah as He had spoken. (Genesis 21:1)

Then she called the name of the LORD who spoke to her, You-Are-the-God-Who-Sees; for she said, Have I also here seen Him who sees me? (Genesis 16:13)

And the LORD appeared to him [Isaac] the same night and said, “I am the God of Abraham your father; fear not, for I am with you and will bless you and multiply your descendants for my servant Abraham’s sake.” (Genesis 26:24)

And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart had turned away from the LORD, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice. (1 Kings 11:9)

(And not forgetting an entire congregation)
“Then Moses said, “This is the thing which the LORD commanded you to do, and the glory of the LORD will appear to you.” (Leviticus 9:4, 6)
And the LORD appeared in the tent in a pillar of cloud; and the pillar of cloud stood by the door of the tent. (Deuteronomy 31:15)

Originally posted by Great King Rat

As an atheist, skimming through the various theists' points of view, I would say that God should probably have been a bit clearer when he wrote (dictated?) the Bible.
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You are not clear about something ?
Maybe you are "not clear" because you want to be "not clear".

I skimm through the hundreds even thousands of reasons atheists give for being atheists and a vast amount of these reasons amoung to:

" I'm turned off because I want to be turned off. Now talk to me some more so I can be more turned off."

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
After he begot Methuselah, Enoch walked with God three hundred years, and had sons and daughters. And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him. (Genesis 5:22, 24)

So the LORD spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. And he would return to the camp, but his servant Joshua the son of Nun, a young man, did not depart ...[text shortened]... in a pillar of cloud; and the pillar of cloud stood by the door of the tent. (Deuteronomy 31:15)

so?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
so?

Was giving examples of biblical figures who apparently saw God in person.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
more opinionated drivel, I don't believe any of your opinions and i dont know why anyone else should either.

Something wrong with your ears? I keep telling you not to believe me. Believe the scriptures, but instead you insist on believing the "drivel" produced by your religious leaders who have butchered the Word of God, which is why you can't see the truth.

The evidence you produced is so weak it's laughable.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Was giving examples of biblical figures who apparently saw God in person.

No one has seen God, the term face to face does not literally mean that persons saw God as the evidence that I provided has proven.

Originally posted by josephw
Something wrong with your ears? I keep telling you not to believe me. Believe the scriptures, but instead you insist on believing the "drivel" produced by your religious leaders who have butchered the Word of God, which is why you can't see the truth.

The evidence you produced is so weak it's laughable.

more nonsense unworthy of serious comment.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
No one has seen God, the term face to face does not literally mean that persons saw God as the evidence that I provided has proven.

Understood, but not all of the passages i quoted said 'face to face.' For example:

And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart had turned away from the LORD, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice. (1 Kings 11:9)

Not an attack, just genuine curiosity.

Originally posted by sonship
[b] As an atheist, skimming through the various theists' points of view, I would say that God should probably have been a bit clearer when he wrote (dictated?) the Bible.
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You are not clear about something ?
Maybe you are "not clear" because you want to be "n ...[text shortened]... ned off because I want to be turned off. Now talk to me some more so I can be more turned off."[/b]

You are not clear about something ?
Maybe you are "not clear" because you want to be "not clear".

Actually, it's not about me, Sonship. I'm an atheist. I have no belief in god, nor in the son of god.

No, it is quite interesting that a bunch of people believe in some kind of almighty being with unlimited powers, believe that there is some kind of book that contains this beings "words", and yet cannot make up their minds about a rather elementary aspect of said being. In this thread, it is the various theists that are quite unclear about their very own god.

"I'm turned off because I want to be turned off. Now talk to me some more so I can be more turned off."

Liar, liar, pants on fire. You are lying when you say the vast amount of hundreds or thousands of reasons atheists give for being atheist is that line. Why you would lie about that, I don't know. Maybe you can tell me? Or maybe you can show some examples of atheists on this forum giving that reason?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Understood, but not all of the passages i quoted said 'face to face.' For example:

And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart had turned away from the LORD, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice. (1 Kings 11:9)

Not an attack, just genuine curiosity.

directly or in some other way?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
directly or in some other way?

Not sure i understand the question, but no biggy. As a non believer in God this issue is just one of semantics. There just seem to be a large number of people across the old and new testaments who appear to have faced God in person, and even wrestled with him. (Though perhaps this was done with the eyes closed?).

You actually get my respect for creating this thread in response to my probing of the whole Archangel thing,as you must of known it would generate a lot of verbal hostility towards you.

That said, you're still a pilchard.