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12 Jul 15
1 edit
Originally posted by SuzianneI shall have a think about my methods, as you call them. But I'm not at the moment convinced of your point I have to say.
[b]"I see you have appointed yourself as spokesperson for your group of "we Christians". Do you include me in that group? Do you include Rajk999? Do you include robbie carrobie?"
Yes, you, me, Rajk, robbie. All Christians. When I say "we Christians", obviously I am talking about "all Christians". I'm obviously part of that group, and so I use the ...[text shortened]... If you think I'm lying, then come right out and say I'm lying, don't couch it in weaker words.[/b]
I don't think you are lying but your are being hypocritical in your preaching to me about "methods" when you are one of the most combatative posters here.
12 Jul 15
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterIf I have been missing something then can you hand-on-heart and without conversing with Lemon Lime further, state now what he believes about eternal suffering?
So many points! Let's take this one first because it sits at the heart of the lack of principles I see in this forum from Chrisitans every day.
[b]As lemon lime has said, you ask the same questions repeatedly, regardless of answer, hoping to finally hear what you want to hear.
If I have been missing something then can you hand-on-heart and wit ...[text shortened]... f people engage on the topic and refuse to unequivocally state what they believe, I keep asking.[/b]
Unless she happened to miss (or somehow overlook) my messages concerning the 'worm' that never dies, I'm confident she would be able to give you an accurate account of what I have been saying.
But she would be basing this observation on posted messages anyone here is able to see. So if you truly did miss something, I would like to know not only what it is you might have missed, but why. How were you be able to miss seeing something that was not only there for anyone to see, but have apparently missed seeing it each and every time I've gone to the trouble of repeating myself.
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Originally posted by lemon limeWell, obviously I must have missed you moving from your position of 20 plus years of being a Christian of "you don't know", to whichever position it is you now hold on the teaching of eternal suffering, and in doing so I sincerely apologise.
[b]If I have been missing something then can you hand-on-heart and without conversing with Lemon Lime further, state now what he believes about eternal suffering?
Unless she happened to miss (or somehow overlook) my messages concerning the 'worm' that never dies, I'm confident she would be able to give you an accurate account of what I have been sa ...[text shortened]... ve apparently missed seeing it each and every time I've gone to the trouble of repeating myself?[/b]
Would you mind if I ask you to repeat your unequivocal statement belief on wether there will be people suffering for eternity after thier death?
Edit: as you have taken the trouble of repeating this so many times, you may just prefer to name the thread, page and post of any of the times. I'll be more than happy to look it up and copy it here for our discussion.
Thank you.
Originally posted by divegeesterYou have no intention of deviating from the script you've written for yourself, do you.
Well, obviously I must have missed you moving from your position of 20 plus years of being a Christian of "you don't know", to whichever position it is you now hold on the teaching of eternal suffering, and in doing so I sincerely apologise.
Would you mind if I ask you to repeat your unequivocal statement belief on wether there will be people sufferi ...[text shortened]... times. I'll be more than happy to look it up and copy it here for our discussion.
Thank you.
I've never seen anyone keep up an act as long as you have, so if I've changed my mind about anything it would have to be that it may not be an act. I think you've been at this for so long now that you've actually bought into (and have come to believe) your own BS accusations... and if anything has changed it's likely a refinement of your particular method of attack.
Let me give you a useful tip here... if you stop focusing so much on the people you're trying impress when talking to people you don't agree with, you're more likely to not miss what the person you're arguing with is saying. It's clear (and not just to me) how your attention appears to be severely divided between who it is you are talking to and the people you're trying to impress, as well as whatever it is you're trying to accomplish here.
Most of us here know what you're really looking for in an answer... I mean seriously, after months of dealing with this sort of nonsense how could we not know? So why do you insist on lying to people who already know what you are looking for and how you intend to use it?
What could be so important that you're willing to risk looking foolish even after being found out? When you were a kid, were you always able to win at hide and seek because of your insistence of not being found?
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13 Jul 15
Originally posted by lemon limeDespite my polite request you are still unable to state unequivocally where you stand on the topic of eternal suffering, nor can you point me to any post in any thread where you claim you "repeatedly" do so.
You have no intention of deviating from the script you've written for yourself, do you.
I've never seen anyone keep up an act as long as you have, so if I've changed my mind about anything it would have to be that it may not be an act. I think you've been at this for so long now that you've actually bought into (and have come to believe) your own BS ac ...[text shortened]... kid, were you always able to win at hide and seek because of your insistence of not being found?
Originally posted by divegeesterThank you.
Well, obviously I must have missed you moving from your position of 20 plus years of being a Christian of "you don't know", to whichever position it is you now hold on the teaching of eternal suffering, and in doing so I sincerely apologise.
Would you mind if I ask you to repeat your unequivocal statement belief on wether there will be people sufferi ...[text shortened]... times. I'll be more than happy to look it up and copy it here for our discussion.
Thank you.
You're welcome... ?
'thank you' for what?
Originally posted by divegeesterHow can you possibly not know where I stand?
Despite my polite request you are still unable to state unequivocally where you stand on the topic of eternal suffering, nor can you point me to any post in any thread where you claim you "repeatedly" do so.
If you asked Suzi she could tell you where I stand
If you ask JRHinds he could tell you where I stand
If you asked Jay he could tell you where I stand
If you asked Grampy Bobby he could tell you where I stand
If you asked Joseph he could tell you where I stand
And if you asked sonship he could tell you...
And there are others who could undoubtedly tell you where I stand. So how is it you seem to be the only one here who doesn't know? How is that possible?
There must be something else going on here... like maybe there's something you want to do with whatever information you're fishing for. Perhaps it's something like, getting me to accept a re-wording of what I've already said in order for you to construct a straw man argument. That's one possible explanation. Or perhaps there is some other reasonable explanation...
Kant say I iz smarts enough to figgering out this here complicatified mystery, an my poor little ol' head is hurtin' fum tryin' to cipher the meanin'. I shore wishes ah learnt more fum gettin' a proper edgyfication. Then them ol' city slickers woulda have them a devil of a time tryin' to trick me into saying or doin' whats is wrong or whats they's is a wantin'...
Ma was right, I shoulda just stayed on the farm and did mah chores.
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Originally posted by lemon limeYou saying people know where you stand on the teaching of eternal suffering does not make it so. Perhaps one of them will be happy to say...? I doubt they will be able to, but I invite you to get even one of them to unequivocally state what your belief is on the topic. Your move on that one.
How can you possibly [b]not know where I stand?
If you asked Suzi she could tell you where I stand
If you ask JRHinds he could tell you where I stand
If you asked Jay he could tell you where I stand
If you asked Grampy Bobby he could tell you where I stand
If you asked Joseph he could tell you where I stand
And if you asked sonship he could te ...[text shortened]... ts they's is a wantin'...
Ma was right, I shoulda just stayed on the farm and did mah chores.[/b]
You have said in this thread that you have "repeatedly" unequivocally stated you where you stand on this issue and yet are unable to point to any of these alleged instances, in any thread, and continue to refuse to clarify what you believe.
Originally posted by divegeesterYou have said in this thread that you have "repeatedly" unequivocally stated you where you stand on this issue
You saying people know where you stand on the teaching of eternal suffering does not make it so. Perhaps one of them will be happy to say...? I doubt they will be able to, but I invite you to get even one of them to unequivocally state what your belief is on the topic. Your move on that one.
You have said in this thread that you have "repeatedly" une ...[text shortened]... y of these alleged instances, in any thread, and continue to refuse to clarify what you believe.
Wrong. I never used the word "unequivocally". This is you yet again attempting to put words in my mouth in the hope that I will go along with your unstated game plan. It's an obvious attempt at re-wording and changing what I've actually said.
You've inserted the word "unequivocally" into what you claim I've said so many times now that your intent has become crystal clear. I'll admit it's a clever word to try working in because of how it can be used. But you've clearly shown your intent to re-word and change what I've been saying so that it will fit neatly into your crybaby 'Oh woe is me because God and his people are so mean spirited' template.
Oh woe is you, for why (oh why) am I making this so hard for you?
If I would simply let you lead me by the nose and go along with you, then you wouldn't find yourself stuck in limbo sounding like some idiotic pre-recorded message. By now you must be feeling very frustrated because...
...you haven't been able to get me to take the bait. So now you are feeling frustrated and angry, because a technique that has worked for you before doesn't seem to be working so well for you anymore. It used to be so easy to sucker folks into unknowingly play along with you, but the magic doesn't seem to be working anymore... and perhaps you're wondering why the same old formula isn't working as well for you now. Well, maybe it's because you're getting old and slow, and can't quite keep up with things anymore... ya think? Naw, that can't be it!
Yup, this is a real head scratcher, that's for sure. Sorry I can't be of more help to you, but as it turns out I'm on the victim list side of your game plan, and I can't honestly say I'm at all interested in playing along. But even so, there is an upside for you to consider... You're being fed!
It may not be what you ordered up or had in mind, but you can't really complain about going hungry. Because the more a troll eats the hungrier he gets...
... so maybe fasting is the answer?
... or not
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Originally posted by lemon limeThe crux of this ridiculous exchange with you is my claim that you lack either the knowledge or the courage to express an unequivocal opinion regarding the correctness of the teaching of eternal suffering.
[b]You have said in this thread that you have "repeatedly" unequivocally stated you where you stand on this issue
Wrong. I never used the word "unequivocally". This is you yet again attempting to put words in my mouth in the hope that I will go along with your unstated game plan. It's an obvious attempt at re-wording and changing what I've a ...[text shortened]... troll eats the hungrier he gets...
... so maybe fasting is the answer?
... or not[/b]
If you have been "repeatedly" clear and unequivocal in other posts and I've missed them, then please point to where they are...? if you have not, then my claim stands. You writing lines and lines of emotionally driven obfuscating verbiage will not change this.
14 Jul 15
3 edits
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
"But many Israelites—those for whom the Kingdom was prepared—will be thrown into outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 8:12)
I wonder if this 'outer darkness' is an alternative to the 'lake of fire', where hell is simply loneliness, isolation and separation from God.
And Jesus answered and spoke to them again by parables and said: “The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come. Again, he sent out other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding.”’ But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business. And the rest seized his servants, treated them spitefully, and killed them. But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.’ So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests.
“But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. So he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
“For many are called, but few are chosen.”
(Matthew 22:1-13)
"The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
(Matthew 13:41-41)
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
(Revelation 20:14-15)
"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
(Revelation 21:8)
Originally posted by divegeesterIt appears you want this debate to stall out and not go anywhere until you've found what you're looking for or get what you want. So what in the name of truth are you looking for, what do you want? If not some wedge you can come back to use as a weapon, then what? What is so important that you want everything to stop and for everyone to stop talking until you get what you want? When exactly did this thread, that has nothing to with you personally, suddenly become exclusively about you?
The crux of this ridiculous exchange with you is my claim that you lack either the knowledge or the courage to express an unequivocal opinion regarding the correctness of the teaching of eternal suffering.
If you have been "repeatedly" clear and unequivocal in other posts and I've missed them, then please point to where they are...? if you have not, ...[text shortened]... ds. You writing lines and lines of emotionally driven obfuscating verbiage will not change this.
I've repeatedly told you I believe what Jesus said about hell. So in your opinion was Jesus mistaken or lying... or do you think he didn't really mean it, and maybe had some hidden agenda or nefarious purpose in mind? And if you think the Bible isn't meant to be taken literally and is filled with made up fictional stories, then how is it any different from the Harry Potter series or The Hobbit?
When will you stop hiding behind a shroud of ambiguity and trying to avoid the spotlight, and just come on out and say what it is you don't believe? Then we can all begin to start having civil discussions again on subjects that have nothing to do with you... or is that the problem? Are you unhappy with the people who are fed up with watching how you've high-jacked yet another thread, and caused it to effectively stall out and become worthless to anyone else? Is that the problem, is this why you are so unhappy?
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14 Jul 15
Originally posted by lemon limeOf course if you don't want to discuss the teaching of eternal suffering and share your thoughts on it, you don't have to.
It appears you want this debate to stall out and not go anywhere until you've found what you're looking for or get what you want. So what in the name of truth are you looking for, what do you want? If not some wedge you can come back to use as a weapon, then what? What is so important that you want everything to stop and for everyone to stop talking until ...[text shortened]... ll out and become worthless to anyone else? Is that the problem, is this why you are so unhappy?
🙂
Originally posted by divegeesterAnd if you don't want to be upfront and honest about your persistent demands for an 'unequivocal statement', you don't need to.
Of course if you don't want to discuss the teaching of eternal suffering and share your thoughts on it, you don't have to.
🙂
But that's okay, because if you really need this spelled out for you I'm prepared to do so. I asked you how you could not know where I stand and it didn't phase you, so let's see if this next set of questions can shed some light....
How could I not know what you mean by 'unequivocal'?
How I could I not know your purpose is in wanting an 'unequivocal' statement?
How could I not know how you've take 'unequivocal statements' out context and used them for taunting people you 'disagree' with?
How could I not know what you intend to do whenever you've demanded a statement when you already know the answer?
How could I not know what purpose could be served for demanding such a statement?
I know what you're trying to do and so do you. And so does everyone else you've played this game with. How could I or anyone else not know? So unless someone new and inexperienced comes along you'll just have to suffer through the indignity of being powerless... because I seriously doubt your ego will allow you to own up to what everyone else can see.
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I suppose I could have just said peek a boo, I see you and left it at that... because it essentially means the same thing.
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Perhaps the emperor would prefer to select some other new outfit for displaying his splendorous nudity... ?
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Hello...yer Majeesty?