1. Joined
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    13 Jan '17 03:16
    (Matthew 27:46) About the ninth hour, Jesus called out with a loud voice, saying: “Eʹli, Eʹli, laʹma sa·bach·thaʹni?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
    How is it God could forsake Jesus if Jesus was God?
    We can talk about how God worked through Jesus and why it was necessary for God to forsake Jesus at another time.
  2. Joined
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    13 Jan '17 03:295 edits
    Originally posted by roigam
    (Matthew 27:46) About the ninth hour, Jesus called out with a loud voice, saying: “Eʹli, Eʹli, laʹma sa·bach·thaʹni?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
    How is it God could forsake Jesus if Jesus was God?
    We can talk about how God worked through Jesus and why it was necessary for God to forsake Jesus at another time.
    It's really simple.

    Jesus is BOTH fully God and not fully God.

    Just like people can BOTH be freed from committing sin and continue to commit sin.

    Just like people can BOTH keep Jesus' commandments and not keep Jesus' commandments.

    Just like people can BOTH be a good tree and a bad tree - even though Jesus explicitly states that "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit."

    Just like people can BOTH believe the entire Bible and not believe the entire Bible.

    Just like the above BOTH makes sense and doesn't make sense. It's really simple.
  3. Standard memberRajk999
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    13 Jan '17 03:38
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    It's really simple.

    Jesus is BOTH fully God and not fully God.

    Just like people can BOTH be freed from committing sin and continue to commit sin.

    Just like people can BOTH keep Jesus' commandments and not keep Jesus' commandments.

    Just like people can BOTH be a good tree and a bad tree - even though Jesus explicitly states that "A good tree ...[text shortened]... a bad tree cannot bear good fruit."

    How can any of the above be nonsense? It's really simple.
    😀....
    Its mysterious
    Its experiential.

    If you dont understnd you dont know Christ.
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    13 Jan '17 03:44
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    It's really simple.

    Jesus is BOTH fully God and not fully God.

    Just like people can BOTH be freed from committing sin and continue to commit sin.

    Just like people can BOTH keep Jesus' commandments and not keep Jesus' commandments.

    Just like people can BOTH be a good tree and a bad tree - even though Jesus explicitly states that "A good tree ...[text shortened]... ad tree cannot bear good fruit."

    How can any of the above not make sense? It's really simple.
    None of that makes sense.
    What makes sense is that Jehovah God worked through His first-born son
    to accomplish the making of His name sacred.
    Just as Jehovah God worked through faithful men of old like Moses.
    (Exodus 14:16) As for you, lift up your rod and stretch out your hand over the sea and divide it, so that the Israelites may go through the midst of the sea on dry ground.
    (Exodus 14:26) Then Jehovah said to Moses: “Stretch out your hand over the sea so that the waters may come back over the Egyptians, their war chariots, and their cavalrymen.”
    There are so many examples of how Jehovah worked through men.........but in no case did it make them God.
    They were used to accomplish God's purpose.
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    13 Jan '17 03:472 edits
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    😀....
    Its mysterious
    Its experiential.

    If you dont understnd you dont know Christ.
    Contrast that with the teachings of Jesus while He walked the Earth which are elegant in their simplicity.

    How can anyone in their right mind believe His teachings in comparison?
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    13 Jan '17 03:511 edit
    Originally posted by roigam
    None of that makes sense.
    What makes sense is that Jehovah God worked through His first-born son
    to accomplish the making of His name sacred.
    Just as Jehovah God worked through faithful men of old like Moses.
    (Exodus 14:16) As for you, lift up your rod and stretch out your hand over the sea and divide it, so that the Israelites may go through the midst of ...[text shortened]... gh men.........but in no case did it make them God.
    They were used to accomplish God's purpose.
    None of that makes sense.

    Think about it. Keep thinking about it until you believe that it does make sense. Only then will you be a true believer.
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    13 Jan '17 04:01
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Contrast that with the teachings of Jesus while He walked the Earth which are elegant in their simplicity.

    How can anyone in their right mind believe it?
    In deed Jesus' teachings were simple, clear.
    (John 17:26) I have made your name known to them and will make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.”
    (John 14:28) You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am.
    So Jesus by his own clear word is less than the Father.
    Even at the end of his human life Jesus said:
    (Matthew 28:18) Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.
    So his right to rule was GIVEN to him.
    It was not his because he was God.
    And then:
    (1 Corinthians 15:24) Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.
    Are any of Jesus words hard to understand?
    No, it is only false religions who have been infested with lies by Satan that can't fathom the clear words of Jesus.
  8. SubscriberFMF
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    13 Jan '17 04:081 edit
    Originally posted by roigam
    No, it is only false religions who have been infested with lies by Satan that can't fathom the clear words of Jesus.
    Do you see the Christians who populate this community ~ aside from robbie carrobie who is a member of your non-stock, not-for-profit corporation ~ as behaving as if they are "infested with lies" and are in some way working for "Satan", wittingly or unwittingly?

    From what I know about the mythology that underpins Christianity, you are handling your disagreement with supposedly fellow Christians by deliberately saying the most extraordinarily offensive thing that one believer in Jesus can say to another believer in Jesus.

    Do you get briefings from your communications experts at the JW organization urging you to behave this way in public and in cyberspace?
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    13 Jan '17 04:21
    Originally posted by FMF
    Do you see the Christians who populate this community ~ aside from robbie carrobie who is a member of your non-stock, not-for-profit corporation ~ as behaving as if they are "infested with lies" and are in some way working for "Satan", wittingly or unwittingly?

    From what I know about the mythology that underpins Christianity, you are handling your disagreeme ...[text shortened]... ations experts at the JW organization urging you to behave this way in public and in cyberspace?
    no, I just use what little good sense I have.
    I am no judge of anyone.
    I just state the Bible principles and let people judge for themselves.
    People need to do more than believe in Jesus.
    Jesus said:
    (John 14:6) Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
    We need to go to Jesus and beyond him to his Father.
    (John 17:3) This means everlasting life, their coming to know you,..... the only true God, and the one whom you sent,..... Jesus Christ.
    So, if we want to be true Christians and we want life, we must grow in knowledge of..... both..... Jesus and his Father Jehovah God.
    God's enemy, Satan the Devil, has infused the Christian religions with false teachings such as the trinity, hellfire, immortality of the soul, and more.
    People who believe these things are not even believing what Jesus taught.
    They need to look at themselves in the mirror.
    They need to study the Bible!
  10. SubscriberFMF
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    13 Jan '17 04:24
    Originally posted by roigam
    no, I just use what little good sense I have.
    I am no judge of anyone.
    You have just stated that you believe that many of the Christians here have been infested with lies by Satan. Is that you exhibiting "good sense"? Is that you demonstrating that you are "no judge of anyone"?
  11. SubscriberFMF
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    13 Jan '17 04:27
    Originally posted by roigam
    I just state the Bible principles and let people judge for themselves. [...]
    They need to study the Bible!
    Where does the Bible state that your fellow Christians - who have some doctrinal differences with you - "have been infested with lies by Satan"? What are the verses that support this specific claim you are making about this specific disagreement about doctrine?
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    13 Jan '17 07:03
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    It's really simple.

    Jesus is BOTH fully God and not fully God.

    Just like people can BOTH be freed from committing sin and continue to commit sin.

    Just like people can BOTH keep Jesus' commandments and not keep Jesus' commandments.

    Just like people can BOTH be a good tree and a bad tree - even though Jesus explicitly states that "A good tree ...[text shortened]... ntire Bible.

    Just like the above BOTH makes sense and doesn't make sense. It's really simple.
    Just like you can BOTH cite one scripture and ignore another.
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    13 Jan '17 07:112 edits
    Originally posted by roigam
    None of that makes sense.
    What makes sense is that Jehovah God worked through His first-born son
    to accomplish the making of His name sacred.
    Just as Jehovah God worked through faithful men of old like Moses.
    (Exodus 14:16) As for you, lift up your rod and stretch out your hand over the sea and divide it, so that the Israelites may go through the midst of ...[text shortened]... gh men.........but in no case did it make them God.
    They were used to accomplish God's purpose.
    It makes complete sense. In fact TOO makes good sense in his arguments all the time, I just don't agree with him.

    You on the other hand make little sense, largely because your pinhole perspective is, like all cult members, hugely restricted. For example your OP: "how can Jesus be god when Jesus cried out to god"? How do interpret the scripture that says that in the flesh of Jesus dwelt the fullnes of the godhead in bodily form? Colossians 2:9

    This is an unequivocal scripture. It states there in the Bible that the entire entity of God the father, Jehovah himself, his very being, dwelt in bodily form on earth. It is impossible to misinterpret it.

    My position of topics such as the godhead, the trinity etc is that in order to understand incidents such as Jesus praying or calling out, you first have to accept the basic fundament truth.

    The truth is that Jehovah, the father, in his FULLNESS dwelt in the flesh in Jesus. They are in essence the same spiritual being. Jesus is God, Jehovah wrapped in a veil of flesh. The veil of flesh that was torn, like the actual veil of the temple was torn. Jesus is all in all, everything we need of God because he is God. He is God on earth in a veil of flesh.

    To me this is so obvious, so simple, so perfect that I cannot understand it when Christians cannot see it.
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    13 Jan '17 17:34
    Originally posted by divegeester
    It makes complete sense. In fact TOO makes good sense in his arguments all the time, I just don't agree with him.

    You on the other hand make little sense, largely because your pinhole perspective is, like all cult members, hugely restricted. For example your OP: "how can Jesus be god when Jesus cried out to god"? How do interpret the scripture that s ...[text shortened]... is so obvious, so simple, so perfect that I cannot understand it when Christians cannot see it.
    Agreed.
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    13 Jan '17 21:566 edits
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Just like you can BOTH cite one scripture and ignore another.
    Actually, in each example I cited they are logically mutually exclusive, but in yours they are not. No surprise that you don't seem to understand the difference.

    In fact, since the Bible is littered with inconsistencies, discrepancies and outright contradictions, people end up having to pick and choose the verses and passages that support their beliefs and "ignore" those that don't. Ultimately they end up "BOTH cit[ing] one scripture and ignor[ing] another".

    Of course, there seem to be more than a few who manage to delude themselves into believing that they "believe the entire Bible", but "pick and choose" all the same.

    For example, there are many who "ignore" the following:
    John 8
    34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
    31...If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free...
    36...So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed..
    51...Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death”.


    You wouldn't know anybody like that would you? Believe it or not, recently there was someone who went so far as to claim "...nor is there any such thing as 'true disciples'" even though the words of Jesus say otherwise. I know, it beggars belief. But true all the same.
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