music

Originally posted by Lord Shark
I'm sorry but yes, your premise is false. Nearly everybody likes music, but a very small proportion don't. Maybe your argument doesn't need the 100% you claimed, but in that case why claim it?

A friend and fellow musician trained as a music therapist and the ethos of his course reflected a similar ideology to "music is a unifying, universal language th ...[text shortened]... d ubiquitous to humans. It can move us deeply, but let's not over-egg the pudding.

I'm sorry you're sorry to be negative. Truly. Ok not 100%. How about 99%?
(Even that 1% probably just cant admit it)

My premise is false. Strictly speaking yes. So what? Do you know what "getting into the spirit" means?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I'm sorry you're sorry to be negative. Truly. Ok not 100%. How about 99%?
(Even that 1% probably just cant admit it)

My premise is false. Strictly speaking yes. So what? Do you know what "getting into the spirit" means?

you can't have a debate if you formulate a debate subject so general. plus you don't present arguments as to why this finding would be useful in any way

what are we really discussing here? what are the pro and con sides?

Originally posted by twhitehead
And loud music can make you go deaf. What else is new?

Actually, on the topic of cellphones, I do get headaches if I use them too much and I get the same effect with standing too close to a microwave cooker. I still use both devices but try to keep it to a minimum. I found a hands free set sometimes helped with the cell phone.

[b]Cell phones aren't ...[text shortened]... at you don't care about being right, then you admit that it is a prerequisite to success.

I agree about the cell phones and microwaves bit, but I feel those points are just nitpicking.

As I have maintained,(in line with the general view of atheists on this forum), God,(or "higher dimansions" ) are unprovable. All I can say is that there is a possibility to get "into the spirit" of my contention. To do that you have to start with a premise.

Something else with similar transporting powers may be drugs. But there are counter effects.

There are always two or more ways to approach any problem. Given this , you can always prove me wrong. In 2 or more ways. Or understand that I'm right.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
when you say that all people everywhere like music you are simply making a general assumptions. a very general assumption. sure people like music. but some may like that nut lady gaga while others enjoy beethoven. some love death metal and the screams and grunts characteristic to them is music.

so yes, all people like music. all people like food as well ...[text shortened]... t took me sometime to reason and few others know so i am sharing" that all debates should have

Air and food can be proven and explained scientifically. Music cannot. Like Love. Few would claim it(love) does not exist but how would you go about proving it?

The other point here is that music is not essential for life. It taps into our "higher" brain functions, which open up new vistas of understanding.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
you can't have a debate if you formulate a debate subject so general. plus you don't present arguments as to why this finding would be useful in any way

what are we really discussing here? what are the pro and con sides?

Agreed.
I'm putting forward a contention and I'm appreciating any furthuring of the topic.
Does it have to be a debate?

The pro side is that music can heal, amongst other things.
The con is that lack of music can have negative side affects.
This is just a general view. Feel free to ask for an extrapolation. (Although, I dont think it is needed)

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Air and food can be proven and explained scientifically. Music cannot. Like Love. Few would claim it(love) does not exist but how would you go about proving it?

That is simply not true.
Appreciation and desire for air, food, music and love can all be explained scientifically. None of them is simple to explain but none of them cannot be explained.

Originally posted by twhitehead
That is simply not true.
Appreciation and desire for air, food, music and love can all be explained scientifically. None of them is simple to explain but none of them cannot be explained.

what i meant to say was that general affirmations are easy to explain and mostly quite obvious.
you can always say all "love" love. but that is the simplistic view. what is love one would ask? is it the same for all of us? does one hate another's love?

equally true with music and food. we all love food and music. until i get into specifics, i haven't really communicated much.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
they haven't found the right music yet. i submit the idea that there isn't a single person in the world capable of hearing that wouldn't find some "collection of sounds" as pleasant. and that can be called their favourite music

Your idea is simply false insofar as it expresses a proposition and untestable insofar as it offers a hypothesis.

There are people with forms of amusia that render all music at best an irrelevance and more often an irritation. Some of the case histories are described in the book 'Musicophilia' by Oliver Sacks that I mentioned above.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
(Even that 1% probably just cant admit it)
That's extremely unlikely.

Do you know what "getting into the spirit" means?
Yes, but why would I want to do that? I think you are mistaken and I've responded to several of the features of your argument to explain why.

Originally posted by Lord Shark
Your idea is simply false insofar as it expresses a proposition and untestable insofar as it offers a hypothesis.

There are people with forms of amusia that render all music at best an irrelevance and more often an irritation. Some of the case histories are described in the book 'Musicophilia' by Oliver Sacks that I mentioned above.

do they like the sound of their children laughing?

how do you define music?

what if i define music as a sequence of sounds that appeals to me? would you then agree all people like music?

yes of course i offered an untestable hypothesis. i said so myself. it is all in the "music" term. if you don't define it, then a person that hates all jazz, pop, rock, classic, folk, lating, etc may find 2 garbage bins banging against eachother as soothing music.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
do they like the sound of their children laughing?

how do you define music?

what if i define music as a sequence of sounds that appeals to me? would you then agree all people like music?

yes of course i offered an untestable hypothesis. i said so myself. it is all in the "music" term. if you don't define it, then a person that hates all jazz, pop, ...[text shortened]... assic, folk, lating, etc may find 2 garbage bins banging against eachother as soothing music.

If you want to define the sound of a kettle whistle as music because somebody likes the anticipation of a nice cup of tea that's up to you.

Music is organised sound. Some of its features are pitch, rhythm, melody, harmony, timbre and so on. As with the term 'game', 'music' describes a set of things that bear a family resemblance to each other and not all the members will necessarily have all the features.

Originally posted by Lord Shark
Your idea is simply false insofar as it expresses a proposition and untestable insofar as it offers a hypothesis.

There are people with forms of amusia that render all music at best an irrelevance and more often an irritation. Some of the case histories are described in the book 'Musicophilia' by Oliver Sacks that I mentioned above.

Superb book. Anybody who loves music really should read it.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
do they like the sound of their children laughing?

how do you define music?

what if i define music as a sequence of sounds that appeals to me? would you then agree all people like music?

yes of course i offered an untestable hypothesis. i said so myself. it is all in the "music" term. if you don't define it, then a person that hates all jazz, pop, ...[text shortened]... assic, folk, lating, etc may find 2 garbage bins banging against eachother as soothing music.

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how do you define music?
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That's a good question.

I have a friend down in Georgia who says he always thought there were only two types of music - Country & Western.

I had another friend from Nashville who said his city was the music capital of the world. Apparently he wasn't impressed with the city of Vienna.

Originally posted by Lord Shark
Originally posted by karoly aczel
[b](Even that 1% probably just cant admit it)
That's extremely unlikely.

Do you know what "getting into the spirit" means?
Yes, but why would I want to do that? I think you are mistaken and I've responded to several of the features of your argument to explain why.[/b]

There is much that people cant admit. And much is subject to change...right now. We'll see(prolly within our lifetimes) where this ends up.

Why would you NOT want to get int othe spirit of it?
Do you know what "spirit" is? For a start it is all things and part of the title of this forum.
But no, dont get into it, no one is forcing you.
I really dont believe you are so daft as to not know what I'm tryig to get at . Even if you vehemently disagree with my contentions, there is no reason to act like this.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
There is much that people cant admit. And much is subject to change...right now. We'll see(prolly within our lifetimes) where this ends up.

Why would you NOT want to get int othe spirit of it?
Do you know what "spirit" is? For a start it is all things and part of the title of this forum.
But no, dont get into it, no one is forcing you.
I really ...[text shortened]... . Even if you vehemently disagree with my contentions, there is no reason to act like this.

You don't understand.

I don't want to get into what I have good reason to think of as false consciousness.

There is a better song to sing.