1. Joined
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    21 Jan '17 15:42
    Just wondering if anyone has caught the statement that Mr Trump has made many times now about all living here in this country "will salute the flag"?
    So if this is really eventually enforced somehow, what are all of your thoughts on this especially knowing that we the JW's can't do that?
    Is being forced to pledge ones allegiance to a government real freedom?
  2. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
    A Spirited Misfit
    in London
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    21 Jan '17 15:55
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Just wondering if anyone has caught the statement that Mr Trump has made many times now about all living here in this country "will salute the flag"?
    So if this is really eventually enforced somehow, what are all of your thoughts on this especially knowing that we the JW's can't do that?
    Is being forced to pledge ones allegiance to a government real freedom?
    "give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God."
    Mark 12:17

    Is it not possible to give allegiance to both God and country without one damaging the other?
  3. Joined
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    21 Jan '17 16:17
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    "give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God."
    Mark 12:17

    Is it not possible to give allegiance to both God and country without one damaging the other?
    Good scripture. So first what should we give to Caesar as Jesus explained and if one does give his allegiance to a country which would include either supporting or actually joining the armed forces if asked too, how would that compromise ones standing with God knowing what his commands are on killing?
    Can a Christian "serve two masters"?
  4. Joined
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    21 Jan '17 16:18
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Just wondering if anyone has caught the statement that Mr Trump has made many times now about all living here in this country "will salute the flag"?
    So if this is really eventually enforced somehow, what are all of your thoughts on this especially knowing that we the JW's can't do that?
    Is being forced to pledge ones allegiance to a government real freedom?
    Links please.
  5. Joined
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    21 Jan '17 16:201 edit
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Good scripture. So first what should we give to Caesar as Jesus explained and if one does give his allegiance to a country which would include either supporting or actually joining the armed forces if asked too, how would that compromise ones standing with God knowing what his commands are on killing?
    Can a Christian "serve two masters"?
    Romans 13:1
    Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

    Get saluting G-man
  6. Joined
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    21 Jan '17 16:22
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Links please.
    No links, just what I've heard him say on TV about 3 times now.
  7. Standard membersonship
    the corrected one.
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    21 Jan '17 16:25
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Good scripture. So first what should we give to Caesar as Jesus explained and if one does give his allegiance to a country which would include either supporting or actually joining the armed forces if asked too, how would that compromise ones standing with God knowing what his commands are on killing?
    Can a Christian "serve two masters"?
    I seemed not to be able to get roigam to confess that Jesus is Lord with me.

    The JWs are not taught to render allegiance to the Lord Jesus Christ.

    As for me, I declare before God and before the US; before the good angels and the bad angels, before the world, before mankind, and before God and Christ - "Jesus Christ is Lord!".

    Do you feel free to join me to write a confession of Jesus Christ is Lord ?

    No one can say Jesus is Lord except in the Holy Spirit.

    " Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking in the Spirit of God says, Jesus is accursed;

    and no one can say, Jesus is Lord! except in the Holy Spirit." (1 Cor. 12:3)



    If you were to confess "Jesus is Lord. Jesus MY Lord." what peace and presence of the living God would flood into your heart !
  8. Joined
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    21 Jan '17 16:30
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Romans 13:1
    Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, [b]for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.


    Get saluting G-man[/b]
    Yes that scripture is correct. But we cannot cross some lines.

    " Today, warring nations often appeal to God for support. But God does not take sides in today’s wars. Instead, in his Word, the Bible, he clearly states: “Return evil for evil to no one,” and, “Do not avenge yourselves.” (Romans 12:17, 19) Moreover, he has made known that mankind should “wait patiently for him” to take action, which he will do at Armageddon. (Psalm 37:7, footnote) When the nations fail to wait for God to act and instead resort to warfare, he views such wars as presumptuous acts of aggression that bring his displeasure. Thus, at Armageddon, God will express his indignation and settle the nations’ disputes once and for all by “bringing an end to wars throughout the earth.” (Psalm 46:9; Isaiah 34:2) Indeed, Armageddon will be the war to end all wars." 2015 Watchtower.
  9. Standard membersonship
    the corrected one.
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    21 Jan '17 17:10
    Originally posted by galveston75
    What holds you back from confessing before the universe "Jesus Christ is Lord. Jesus is the Lord of galveston75"

    Have you been bewitched?
    Why cannot you or roigam confess Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father ?

    Christmas ?
    An American flag ??

    Don't you realize that every KNEE that has ever existed upon this earth will bow to Jesus? And every tongue created in this earth will one day confess Jesus is Lord.

    "That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

    And every tongue should openly confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." (Phil 2:10,11)


    The knees of sonship, roigam, robbie, FMF, twhitehead, sonhouse, wolfgang, and every other single poster on this Forum, sooner or latter will come to Jesus Christ in unconditional surrender.

    Whether God will force them down or whether they will collapse in final realization, I do not know. I suspect it is the latter. Reality will break upon them even if too late, and they will have to acknowledge Jesus Christ is Lord.

    Why not sooner rather than latter ?
    Confessing Jesus is Lord is greatly beneficial in this age and unto forever.

    What holds you back ??
    Is it a matter of wanting to "save face" ?
    You'd be better advised to get your spirit and soul and body saved.

    " And the God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete without blame, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Faithful is He who calls you, who also will do it." (1 Thess. 5:23,24)
  10. Joined
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    21 Jan '17 17:15
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Just wondering if anyone has caught the statement that Mr Trump has made many times now about all living here in this country "will salute the flag"?
    So if this is really eventually enforced somehow, what are all of your thoughts on this especially knowing that we the JW's can't do that?
    Is being forced to pledge ones allegiance to a government real freedom?
    It's interesting how some will worry about saluting the flag yet at the same time make excuses for why women should have the right to abort. Point is, we have bigger problems to solve than worrying about saluting the flag.

    Not directed at galveston
  11. Joined
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    21 Jan '17 17:37
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Good scripture. So first what should we give to Caesar as Jesus explained and if one does give his allegiance to a country which would include either supporting or actually joining the armed forces if asked too, how would that compromise ones standing with God knowing what his commands are on killing?
    Can a Christian "serve two masters"?
    A Christian can serve the commandments of two masters if:

    1. The masters have a way to agree on their commandments,

    And

    2. The Christian agrees to obey the commandments no matter how the masters come to agree on them.
  12. Cape Town
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    21 Jan '17 17:39
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Is being forced to pledge ones allegiance to a government real freedom?
    I am generally against nationalism. I also think forcing someone to salute the flag would be wrong. I do think we need to generally comply with law and order for the sake of having a society, but this doesn't necessarily amount to 'pledging allegiance' and I think I would object to any call to pledge allegiance that is not of my free choice (not least because it would be a lie).

    Conscription is different, and I am undecided. I realise the need to defend a country, although most modern wars are not really about that at all. I also realise that if choice is given then many people will hold back in the hope that others will go and die first. This is the same reason why we don't make paying taxes voluntary. Most people recognise the need to pay taxes, and other than the US, most people will vote for taxes, but many people will still dodge taxes if they can.

    My understanding is that you do not vote. That suggests you do not make your views known to the government, so how are they to know whether or not you support going to war? Sometimes war is an all or nothing situation. If it came to that, would you rather the country surrender, or would you be happy if they went to war, but just didn't include you?
  13. Cape Town
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    21 Jan '17 17:40
    Originally posted by JS357
    A Christian can serve the commandments of two masters if:

    1. The masters have a way to agree on their commandments,

    And

    2. The Christian agrees to obey the commandments no matter how the masters come to agree on them.
    I personally think that serving does not have to require obedience.
  14. Joined
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    21 Jan '17 17:46
    Originally posted by leunammi
    It's interesting how some will worry about saluting the flag yet at the same time make excuses for why women should have the right to abort. Point is, we have bigger problems to solve than worrying about saluting the flag.

    Not directed at galveston
    Yes you are right. But it could become a serious issue if there is some type of punishment such as fines, jail time or eventually something worse. The constitution should protect ones who refuse to do things such as this because of their religious beliefs, but history proves that the constitution does not always help.
  15. Joined
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    21 Jan '17 17:541 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I am generally against nationalism. I also think forcing someone to salute the flag would be wrong. I do think we need to generally comply with law and order for the sake of having a society, but this doesn't necessarily amount to 'pledging allegiance' and I think I would object to any call to pledge allegiance that is not of my free choice (not least bec ...[text shortened]... r the country surrender, or would you be happy if they went to war, but just didn't include you?
    Actually the JW's are very well recognized for their paying of taxes no matter what country we live in just as Jesus explained we should.
    And I'm very sure all governments know we do not fight or vote because Jesus said "his Kingdom is no part of this world and his followers would also be no part of this world" ( which means we do not get involved in it's politics and the wars it produces) which is not a new fact and we leave it up to Jehovah to exact revenge which he will at Armageddon.
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