1. Joined
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    12 Apr '05 17:481 edit
    I don't know if I believ in God. My family is religious. I go to church and I feel good after I have gone. I pray. But I don't believe in miracles. I don't believe that God causes bad things or good things to happen to people. I don't believe in Heaven or Hell.
    And yet, I am a spiritual person. I am in awe of life on earth. I am amazed at how it all works. I feel most spiritual with nature, not humans. It worries and upsets me that I don't believe in God. But I am not sure that there is a God.
  2. Joined
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    12 Apr '05 17:591 edit
    Originally posted by elvendreamgirl
    I don't know if I believ in God. My family is religious. I go to church and I feel good after I have gone. I pray. But I don't believe in miracles. I don't believe that God causes bad things or good things to happen to people. I d ...[text shortened]... at I don't believe in God. But I am not sure that there is a God.
    What a sec, you don't believe in God or you don't know if you believe in God? It has to be one or the other.
  3. Joined
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    12 Apr '05 18:25
    Originally posted by darvlay
    What a sec, you don't believe in God or you don't know if you believe in God? It has to be one or the other.
    I guess I don't know if I believe in God.
    It is very troubling.
  4. Joined
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    12 Apr '05 18:29
    Originally posted by elvendreamgirl
    It worries and upsets me that I don't believe in God. But I am not sure that there is a God.
    It sounds like you have the expectation that you dutifully should believe in God, and yet that hasn't been the case in your heart. These things can't be forced. Better to let the question simmer while you remain rightfully in awe of the wonder you experience everywhere. You are a kind person from what I can gather. Let confidence in your own good heart guide you for now.
  5. Joined
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    12 Apr '05 18:38
    Originally posted by elvendreamgirl
    I guess I don't know if I believe in God.
    It is very troubling.
    Well, join the club. 🙂

    Personally, I don't believe in the Christian God, but I am not so quick to doubt the existence of a higher power that we are not aware of.
  6. Joined
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    12 Apr '05 18:501 edit
    Originally posted by darvlay
    Well, join the club. 🙂

    Personally, I don't believe in the Christian God, but I am not so quick to doubt the existence of a higher power that we are not aware of.
    Here, here.

    One of the many reasons I can't accept a Christian God, is the thought of all non-Christians, who never had a chance of being exposed to Christianity due to sociological reasons beyond their control, being doomed for all eternity.

    There's going to be an awful lot of decent, kind-hearted, spiritual people of non-Christian denominations fuelling hell's furnaces until the end of time, simply because they were born in the wrong country, or in the wrong family. At least it'll keep everyone in Heaven warm anyway...
  7. Joined
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    12 Apr '05 18:58
    Originally posted by PawnCurry
    Here, here.

    One of the many reasons I can't accept a Christian God, is the thought of all non-Christians, who never had a chance of being exposed to Christianity due to sociological reasons beyond their control, being doomed for all eternity.

    There's going to be an awful lot of decent, kind-hearted, spiritual people of non-Christian denominations f ...[text shortened]... he wrong country, or in the wrong family. At least it'll keep everyone in Heaven warm anyway...
    I recall having this exact debate with dj2becker in a thread called "How can a God of love send somebody to hell" or something like that... I didn't really get the answers I was looking for. Perhaps it's time to open up a new discussion?
  8. Joined
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    12 Apr '05 19:02
    Originally posted by darvlay
    I recall having this exact debate with dj2becker in a thread called "How can a God of love send somebody to hell" or something like that... I didn't really get the answers I was looking for. Perhaps it's time to open up a new discussion?
    You can try it if you like, and I'd be willing to contribute, but do you honestly think it's possible to have reasoned debate on such matters with (you've named him) dj2becker, and Darfius (there, I've named him)?
  9. Joined
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    12 Apr '05 19:18
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    Tell you what...I was raised Irish Catholic and I can't tell you the last time I've been to church. I have real problems with organized religion. But I too consider myself to be a very spiritual person, and my argument for the existence of God comes from a few different angles.

    First, I'm a chemical engineer by profession. An engineer's stud ...[text shortened]... on this lovely rock. What happens when the bus comes? It's the greatest adventure of all!
    Big rec for Sasquatch!!!
  10. Not Kansas
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    12 Apr '05 19:47
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    Tell you what...I was raised Irish Catholic and I can't tell you the last time I've been to church. I have real problems with organized religion. But I too consider myself to be a very spiritual person, and my argument for the existence of God comes from a few different angles.

    First, I'm a chemical engineer by profession. An engineer's stud ...[text shortened]... on this lovely rock. What happens when the bus comes? It's the greatest adventure of all!
    This sounds spiritual to me, gets a rec.
  11. Standard memberDarfius
    The Apologist
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    12 Apr '05 19:49
    Originally posted by PawnCurry
    You can try it if you like, and I'd be willing to contribute, but do you honestly think it's possible to have reasoned debate on such matters with (you've named him) dj2becker, and Darfius (there, I've named him)?
    What's that supposed to mean? 😠

    I resemble that remark...
  12. Standard memberColetti
    W.P. Extraordinaire
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    12 Apr '05 19:50
    Originally posted by elvendreamgirl
    ...And yet, I am a spiritual person. ....
    What does it mean - to be a "spiritual person"?
  13. Standard memberDarfius
    The Apologist
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    12 Apr '05 20:02
    Originally posted by elvendreamgirl
    I don't know if I believ in God. My family is religious. I go to church and I feel good after I have gone. I pray. But I don't believe in miracles. I don't believe that God causes bad things or good things to happen to people. I don't believe in Heaven or Hell.
    And yet, I am a spiritual person. I am in awe of life on earth. I am amazed at how it ...[text shortened]... s. It worries and upsets me that I don't believe in God. But I am not sure that there is a God.
    “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has showed it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.”
    ~ Romans 1:18-20

    Job 12:7-9 says, “‘But now ask the beasts, and they will teach you; and the birds of the air, and they will tell you; or speak to the earth, and it will teach you; and the fish of the sea will explain to you. Who among all these does not know that the hand of the Lord has done this..?”

    Psalms 19:1-4: “The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament shows His handiwork. Day unto day utters speech, and night unto night reveals knowledge. There is no speech nor language where their voice is not heard. Their line has gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world.”

    Psalm 14:1 "The fool says in his heart, There is no God.'
  14. Standard memberDarfius
    The Apologist
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    12 Apr '05 20:04
    Originally posted by elvendreamgirl
    I guess I don't know if I believe in God.
    It is very troubling.
    Why not? 🙂
  15. Joined
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    12 Apr '05 20:06
    Originally posted by Darfius
    What's that supposed to mean? 😠

    I resemble that remark...
    Don't take offence, none intended... (well, if you want to, feel free), but I've struggled to find a thread to which either of you have contributed which sounded less like a debate or a discussion, and more like a sermon (which I suppose is appropriate, as you are trying to spread the word of "God"!).

    Though if you're up for some healthy debate, the original proposition still stands - what does happen to non-Christians when they die? Let's lump Catholics in with them as well, I seem to recall you believe that Catholicism is a fundamentally flawed interpretation of the Bible (feel free to correct me here, as I'm going from my admittedly failing memory, rather than trawling through the threads).

    Mother Theresa. Catholic. No doubt in my mind that if a (Christian) God exists in Heaven (still open to debate, but fot the argument's sake, I'll accept that premise), Mother Theresa will be up there with him (I doubt she was a secret axe-murderer, and all those good works must count for something).

    Or did she end up in Hell, separated from God for all eternity? For following a false religion? This is where I have a big problem with your spin on Christianity and God.

    Maybe we DO need to take this to a new thread...
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