No unity in beliefs.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
If you think that is a yes or no answer to my question then you are thicker than i think you are already.

Your missing the point and unfortunately there isn't much I can do to help you see it.

Mt two cents: Whatever consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes should be of no concern to anyone else. If it is indeed a "crime" against god, then surely they will meet their punishment in the afterlife.
Surely our focus would be better served in pursruing injustices that actually matter to the greater good.

As for "unity of beliefs" , I see this as another paradox, where we can be unified on the inside (by the way we treat eachother,etc.), but exhibit different personas/attitudes on the outside.
The "one size fits all" take on god will never come about. Learn to deal with it.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Mt two cents: Whatever consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes should be of no concern to anyone else. If it is indeed a "crime" against god, then surely they will meet their punishment in the afterlife.
Surely our focus would be better served in pursruing injustices that actually matter to the greater good.

As for "unity of beliefs ...[text shortened]... utside.
The "one size fits all" take on god will never come about. Learn to deal with it.

I appreciate your comments as usual. But as far as the unity issue it does exist in a religious setting. I know it's a truely hard thing to believe in this world as it seems mankind is getting more and more apart on agreeing with anything. Look at the US government as we speak.
And yes what a person decides to do in their private life's is their own business and they will answer to God if it is against what he approves of. But that's not really the issue being raised here by a few and that is do we associate with them on a personal level and allow them into our churches with them still practicing the offensive actions. According to the Bible the answer is no...

Originally posted by galveston75
I appreciate your comments as usual. But as far as the unity issue it does exist in a religious setting. I know it's a truely hard thing to believe in this world as it seems mankind is getting more and more apart on agreeing with anything. Look at the US government as we speak.
And yes what a person decides to do in their private life's is their own bu ...[text shortened]... with them still practicing the offensive actions. According to the Bible the answer is no...

According to your interpretation of the bible. Clearly not everyone on here shares your reading.
When talking of unity, you will have to separate individuals from groups ,(like the U.S. government).
For whether you can percieve it or not, we are actually all linked on a deeper, unseen level.
Just because their are many systems failing around us does not mean disunity. It just means that the old is breaking up and making way for the new.
When we face god at the pearly gates, or whatever afterlife scenario you or others may subscribe to, we will be "judged" one by one on our own merits. Being a member of an organization is really not going to help either way.

Originally posted by galveston75
Your missing the point and unfortunately there isn't much I can do to help you see it.

You can help by answering my clear, concise, straight forward question.

Does Jesus explicitly mention homosexuality anywhere in the Gospels?

A yes or no is all i need.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
So there is no explicit mentioning of homosexuality by Jesus. The rest is just conjecture, postulation and whatever you usually term it.

As for your question, i'm not a Christian remember.

no its not, Christ was a Hebrew, he upheld the mosaic law, that is not conjecture, that
is a statement of fact. As yet, no one has answered why a Christian is obligated to
leave off the morality of scripture and on the basis that Christ never actually explicitly
mentioned homosexuality, to accept it as a practice. Please note one does not need to
be a Christian, it only takes reasoning to try to answer. If Agers were here , he would
try it.

Originally posted by galveston75
Well it seems you just have a personal problem of connecting the dots with comprehension and the continuing theme in the Bible on morals. If one wants to discredit the Bible as a whole or in whatever parts one wants, that's their decision. But that personal descision of yours does not make this clear moral fact that's in the Bible and that Jesus as well ...[text shortened]... disguting thing in God's eyes and his son would have had the same viewpoint, period!!!!!!!!

Jesus as well as all the apostles clearly condemened this gross act of homosexuality.

Pretty bold claim.

Let's see if you can back it up by citing passages from the Bible where Jesus "clearly condemned...homosexuality" or if you've just made an empty and false claim.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
According to your interpretation of the bible. Clearly not everyone on here shares your reading.
When talking of unity, you will have to separate individuals from groups ,(like the U.S. government).
For whether you can percieve it or not, we are actually all linked on a deeper, unseen level.
Just because their are many systems failing around us does ...[text shortened]... e on our own merits. Being a member of an organization is really not going to help either way.

1 Corinthians 1:10 (Amplified Bible)
10 But I urge and entreat you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you be in perfect harmony and full agreement in what you say, and that there be no dissensions or factions or divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in your common understanding and in your opinions and judgments.

I posted this scripture before and this is referring to a "spiritual level" of unity. When it come to politics and the such you will never have full agreement as we all seen from history. But this is a spiritual unity that would be an obvious thing to be seen by any involved or just ones looking on even.
And this is something that would also be a noticable sign of Christ followers. So again as rare and as unbelieveable as this would seem to be it actually does exist.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no its not, Christ was a Hebrew, he upheld the mosaic law, that is not conjecture, that
is a statement of fact. As yet, no one has answered why a Christian is obligated to
leave off the morality of scripture and on the basis that Christ never actually explicitly
mentioned homosexuality, to accept it as a practice. Please note one does not nee ...[text shortened]... a Christian, it only takes reasoning to try to answer. If Agers were here , he would
try it.

Christ was a Hebrew, he upheld the mosaic law, that is not conjecture, that
is a statement of fact

Actually it's not that difficult to cite an example of where Jesus contradicted Mosaic Law as He did here:
Matthew 5
38“You have heard that it was said, ‘AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.’ 39“But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

This clearly contradicts the Mosaic Law cited here:
Leviticus 24
19‘If a man injures his neighbor, just as he has done, so it shall be done to him: 20fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; just as he has injured a man, so it shall be inflicted on him.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]Christ was a Hebrew, he upheld the mosaic law, that is not conjecture, that
is a statement of fact

Actually it's not that difficult to cite an example of where Jesus contradicted Mosaic Law as He did here:
Matthew 5
38“You have heard that it was said, ‘AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.’ 39“But I say to you, do not resist an evil p ...[text shortened]... e, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; just as he has injured a man, so it shall be inflicted on him.[/b]

So if a company changes it's policies on some issue on how they expect their employees to act or react in a certian situation, say with an irate customer, it is a "contradiction" on the managments part and not just an advancement in how to treat that irate customer? Is that what your saying? Is that a bad thing?

Originally posted by galveston75
So if a company changes it's policies on some issue on how they expect their employees to act or react in a certian situation, say with an irate customer, it is a "contradiction" on the managments part and not just an advancement in how to treat that irate customer? Is that what your saying? Is that a bad thing?

RC made the claim that "[Jesuse] upheld the mosaic law" as if Jesus upheld all of Mosaic Law in an effort to mislead others into believing that Jesus therefore condemned homosexuality.

The fact is that Jesus did not. The fact is that RC made a false claim.

Still waiting to see if you can cite passages from the Bible where Jesus "clearly condemned...homosexuality" or if you also made a false claim.

Originally posted by galveston75
1 Corinthians 1:10 (Amplified Bible)
10 But I urge and entreat you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you be in perfect harmony and full agreement in what you say, and that there be no dissensions or factions or divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in your common understanding and in your opinions and judgment ...[text shortened]... lowers. So again as rare and as unbelieveable as this would seem to be it actually does exist.

Every creature dies alone,(that Jesus guy is just a hallucination🙂 )

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
RC made the claim that "[Jesuse] upheld the mosaic law" as if Jesus upheld all of Mosaic Law in an effort to mislead others into believing that Jesus therefore condemned homosexuality.

The fact is that Jesus did not. The fact is that RC made a false claim.

Still waiting to see if you can cite passages from the Bible where Jesus "clearly condemned...homosexuality" or if you also made a false claim.

Wow.. It's extrememly unbelieveable that you are thinking this way but what can I say.
No Jesus specifically never said the word homosexual that I'm aware of. I'm sure you'll go with that and not read anything else I say but here it is in case your here to learn anything.
I'll try this from another angle for you. Are you aware of what fornication is? You do understand that fornication is sex between two unmarried people? You are aware that in most countries that try to follow morals no matter what religion it may be, they usually condemn fornication and usually homosexuality. Now it appears in your case you see nothing wrong with homosexuality but maybe you do understand that fornication is wrong. I hope so. So the question is do you see any connection between homosexuality and fornication? If you don't grasp that connection then you have some moral issues I can't help you with.
But just in case your interested in the morality of fornication, here you go.


Matthew 5:32 (New Century Version)
32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife forces her to be guilty of adultery. The only reason for a man to divorce his wife is if she has sexual relations with another man. And anyone who marries that divorced woman is guilty of adultery.

The reason I posted this scripture is Jesus here is explaining the relations between a man and a women. He says nothing of a man and a man because that is beyond consideration of even happening. If it was ok for a man and a man to be together in Jesus's mind and thought that some day in the future that it would be ok, I'm sure he would have included that extra explination of a man and a man. Right?


Matthew 19:4-6 (New Century Version)
4 Jesus answered, "Surely you have read in the Scriptures: When God made the world, 'he made them male and female.'[a] 5 And God said, 'So a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will become one body.'[b] 6 So there are not two, but one. God has joined the two together, so no one should separate them."

Where is the explination and exceptions for a man and a man here? Where?



Mark 7:20-22 (New Century Version)

20 And Jesus said, "The things that come out of people are the things that make them unclean. 21 All these evil things begin inside people, in the mind: evil thoughts, sexual sins, stealing, murder, adultery,
22 greed, evil actions, lying, doing sinful things, jealousy, speaking evil of others, pride, and foolish living.

Self explainitory I would think. Anyway nothing else I have to say on this. It's your morals that could be the issue.

Originally posted by galveston75
Wow.. It's extrememly unbelieveable that you are thinking this way but what can I say.
No Jesus specifically never said the word homosexual that I'm aware of. I'm sure you'll go with that and not read anything else I say but here it is in case your here to learn anything.
I'll try this from another angle for you. Are you aware of what fornication is? ...[text shortened]... y nothing else I have to say on this. It's your morals that could be the issue.

As has been explained to thinkofone on numerous occasions (although it failed to
penetrate the mind and percolate to the heart), Christ, a rabbi and a Hebrew upheld
the Mosiac law.

(Matthew 5:17-18) . . .“Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I
came, not to destroy, but to fulfill;  for truly I say to you that sooner would
heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one particle of a
letter to pass away from the Law by any means and not all things take place.

(Luke 5:14) . . .And he gave the man orders to tell nobody: “But go off and show
yourself to the priest, and make an offering in connection with your cleansing, just
as Moses directed, for a witness to them.”

(Luke 17:14) . . .And when he got sight of them he said to them: “Go and show
yourselves to the priests.” Then as they were going off their cleansing occurred. . .
(mandatory under the Law)

Clearly Jesus had respect for and upheld the Mosiac law, as evidenced by these
texts!

his mistake (among many others) is in a failure to differentiate between what was
actually in the Mosiac law, that is what was written and what grew up as the oral
law, that was an interpretation of the Mosiac law and which consisted of hundreds of
ordinances and decrees. Thus Christ modifies not the Law itself, but its
interpretation, that is why, he consistently states not, you have heard that it is
written but 'you have heard that it was said'.

Due to his erroneous claims, thinkofone has not come to an accurate understanding
of the scripture, due to incomplete knowledge (background of the Law and the
ordinances that were added in the form of the oral tradition and which Christ spoke
against), nor can he explain why Christ directed others, even after they were
healed to act in a manner in harmony with the Law, as prescribed by Moses and his
claims are thus without foundation. He should therefore issue a retraction in stating
that I have made a false claim, when clearly the matter has been demonstrated.

Originally posted by galveston75
Wow.. It's extrememly unbelieveable that you are thinking this way but what can I say.
No Jesus specifically never said the word homosexual that I'm aware of. I'm sure you'll go with that and not read anything else I say but here it is in case your here to learn anything.
I'll try this from another angle for you. Are you aware of what fornication is? ...[text shortened]... y nothing else I have to say on this. It's your morals that could be the issue.

It took 4 pages but we got there -

No Jesus specifically never said the word homosexual that I'm aware of.

Thanks.