Obamacare vs Christianity, as blogger sees it--

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
heh, i believe more an more that you are a troll.

you created this incredibly idiotic persona and you come here spewing garbage to trigger a response from us. then you sit in your armchair and laugh your ass off at how stupid we are to believe anyone can be as stupid as you, and still be able to operate a computer.


the alternative would be that you ...[text shortened]... ally are this stupid and that would be kind of sad. and a clear sign we as a species are doomed.

Well, you are right on one thing. I do sit in my armchair and laugh at your stupidity. But not at the stupidity that you mentioned.

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
I'll repeat FMF's question because it's a good one.

When did these now days start???

[b]You got it backwards where does the govenment have the right to over ride
the owner's religious views?

When there is a logical, secular reason that is to lead to a benefit within society and/or the employees who are directly affected. That's just off the ...[text shortened]... arriage, can the government ban gay marriage since it would be violating my religion?[/b]

So you reject out of hand anything that has to do with religion, if any secular
reason can be given? My point is that is what is going on, religion is a very
important part of people's lives, except to those that claim they have none. So
they infringe upon them at all points and think it is nothing. You may without
a doubt think it is grey, I do not, and it becomes a little thing to you when we
are telling you it isn't a little thing.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
The law protects people from the government, but now days those parts are cast aside as the government takes upon itself more power.

In your view, when did these "now days" begin?

The government is now starting to force people to do things that goes against their convictions by redefining what church and state means.

What do you reckon the new definition is?

And you say it's "now starting": when do you reckon it started - what year, or decade, or which administration?

aOriginally posted by FMF
In your view, when did these "now days" begin?

[b]The government is now starting to force people to do things that goes against their convictions by redefining what church and state means.

What do you reckon the new definition is?

And you say it's "now starting": when do you reckon it started - what year, or decade, or which administration?[/b]

I've never seen any administration do it like this one, if you can give other
examples of others doing it, I'll read them.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I've never seen any administration do it like this one, if you can give other
examples of others doing it, I'll read them.

Didn't administrations before this one use taxpayers' money - for instance - to fund military action that may have been against the religion-based pacifist principles of some of those taxpayers?

Originally posted by FMF
Didn't administrations before this one use taxpayers' money - for instance - to fund military action that may have been against the religion-based pacifist principles of some of those taxpayers?

Did the govenment force anyone into buying or selling anything? All of us can
complain about what the government spends money on (with good cause), but
forcing you to spend money out of your own pocket, is another thing all together.
Forcing people to buy things they want nothing to do with is also another thing
as well, this administration has taken things to a whole new level.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Did the govenment force anyone into buying or selling anything? All of us can
complain about what the government spends money on (with good cause), but
forcing you to spend money out of your own pocket, is another thing all together.
Forcing people to buy things they want nothing to do with is also another thing
as well, this administration has taken things to a whole new level.
Kelly

Oh OK. Yes, I understand the position you take on this.

Originally posted by KellyJay
So you reject out of hand anything that has to do with religion, if any secular
reason can be given? My point is that is what is going on, religion is a very
important part of people's lives, except to those that claim they have none. So
they infringe upon them at all points and think it is nothing. You may without
a doubt think it is grey, I do not, and it becomes a little thing to you when we
are telling you it isn't a little thing.
Kelly

So you reject out of hand anything that has to do with religion, if any secular
reason can be given?

That's not what I said. I said there needs to be a secular reason and more than that.

You may without a doubt think it is grey, I do not, and it becomes a little thing to you when we are telling you it isn't a little thing.

So you think there is no grey area? If so, then please let me know where that line is. If it is so black & white and cut and dried then I would think that you should be able to express where that line is. Can you do that please?

Basically, if you were writing your own constitution or law governing the freedom of religion as you see it, what would that part be?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Did the govenment force anyone into buying or selling anything? All of us can
complain about what the government spends money on (with good cause), but
forcing you to spend money out of your own pocket, is another thing all together.
Forcing people to buy things they want nothing to do with is also another thing
as well, this administration has taken things to a whole new level.
Kelly

The government did that before didn't they?

The government forces people to buy into insurance programs like medicare right? Is that a violation of the first amendment too?

What about when the government forces you to buy car insurance if you want to drive a car?

The government forces you to buy a driver's license if you want to buy, it forces you to buy a gun permit if you want to own a gun!

The government in some states wants to force you to buy a photo ID if you want to take part in your RIGHT to vote.

All of these are violations of my religion!!


Odd that the only thing you get your panties in a bunch is this one case?

This administration isn't taking anything to any level that we haven't already been at before.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Did the govenment force anyone into buying or selling anything? All of us can
complain about what the government spends money on (with good cause), but
forcing you to spend money out of your own pocket, is another thing all together.
Forcing people to buy things they want nothing to do with is also another thing
as well, this administration has taken things to a whole new level.
Kelly

Doesn't seem like this is a valid claim.

The government has a long history of mandating, for both businesses and individuals, what they believe is beneficial to society as a whole. Here are but a few examples: safety belts, liability insurance, air and water treatment devices, fire extinguishers, etc.

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
The government did that before didn't they?

The government forces people to buy into insurance programs like medicare right? Is that a violation of the first amendment too?

What about when the government forces you to buy car insurance if you want to drive a car?

The government forces you to buy a driver's license if you want to buy, it forces ...[text shortened]... is administration isn't taking anything to any level that we haven't already been at before.

If you find someone complaining about Medicare and their first amendment
rights I suggest you go talk to them. People have complained bitterly that they
did NOT want tax dollars going towards anything that killed unborn children, the
government NOW is doing that and more! Car insurance is only forced upon those
of us who want to drive, not those of us that just live their lives, you don't want
to drive you do not have to buy it; moreover, it is a state law too not a federal one
that mandates that if I'm not mistaken.
Kelly

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Doesn't seem like this is a valid claim.

The government has a long history of mandating, for both businesses and individuals, what they believe is beneficial to society as a whole. Here are but a few examples: safety belts, liability insurance, air and water treatment devices, fire extinguishers, etc.

May not seem like a valid claim to you, it isn't you that is making it, to those of
us that are making it, it is a very valid claim that goes against much of what
defines us.
Kelly

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
[b]So you reject out of hand anything that has to do with religion, if any secular
reason can be given?

That's not what I said. I said there needs to be a secular reason and more than that.

You may without a doubt think it is grey, I do not, and it becomes a little thing to you when we are telling you it isn't a little thing.

So yo ...[text shortened]... constitution or law governing the freedom of religion as you see it, what would that part be?[/b]

As someone who is pro-life being forced to pay for what I believe is the death of
a human life is something I think is one of the most hideous things going. It is the
law of the land yes, but it has never been forced upon someone who didn't want
any part of it till now. I don't care what your 'secular reasons and more are" you
cannot give me anything in my opinion that justifies that, if I employeed 50+
people or more I'd shut down the company or go to jail before I'd go along with that.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
If you find someone complaining about Medicare and their first amendment
rights I suggest you go talk to them. People have complained bitterly that they
did NOT want tax dollars going towards anything that killed unborn children, the
government NOW is doing that and more! Car insurance is only forced upon those
of us who want to drive, not those of us t eover, it is a state law too not a federal one
that mandates that if I'm not mistaken.
Kelly

Owning your own business is not religion, it is precisely living your life, no different to driving a car or owning a gun.

Your government is saying that if you want (as a life choice) to employ your fellow citizens and provide them with health care, you are not allowed to impose your religious views on them by denying them categories of health care which you do not agree with in your personal religious life.

Originally posted by kevcvs57
Owning your own business is not religion, it is precisely living your life, no different to driving a car or owning a gun.

Your government is saying that if you want (as a life choice) to employ your fellow citizens and provide them with health care, you are not allowed to impose your religious views on them by denying them categories of health care which you do not agree with in your personal religious life.

Who are you to tell me what is or is not my religion?
You don't get to tell me what is and is not important in my life what is to be valued
or not, where the do you get off saying that?
Kelly