Obsession and Islam

Originally posted by scherzo
Rome is not the center of Catholicism. The Vatican is. Are non-Catholics allowed into the Vatican?

Exactly.

Actually, I am quite sure non-Catholics are allowed into the vatican.

Originally posted by scherzo
OK. Fine. 😠

www.obsessionthemovie.com

There, happy?!?

What the heck is this? Where can I search on that site for media reports
on suicide bombing?!? It's an advertisement for a particular movie!

Look, you laid a challenge:

Originally posted by scherzo
I have yet to hear of any suicide deaths in Mecca.

Rajk999 gave you a list of articles. You rejected them because of the
purported Islamophobic nature of the BBC.

But, in two tries, you've been unable to give a news media outlet which
discusses suicide bombing, except the one that addresses those in
Palestine. Your last one was a movie, for crying out loud.

So, put your money where your mouth is:

Present us with three, online searchable sources that you would trust
for reports about terrorists. It would be helpful, too, if you would explain
why you trust those sources.

Nemesio

Originally posted by scherzo
Rome is not the center of Catholicism. The Vatican is. Are non-Catholics allowed into the Vatican?

Exactly.

Also, Ron Howard and Co. were forced to leave Rome on the Vatican's orders when filming "Angels and Demons," the upcoming prequel to "The Da Vinci Code."

Nobody dares say anything against anyone Jewish anymore. They don't get that there's a di ...[text shortened]... should we judge a religion by whether it allows non-believers into their most holy city?

What's wrong with you?! Have you been to the Vatican? There is no border, you simply step up from the gutter (Rome) onto the sidewalk (the Vatican) and you're in the Vatican! There's no one stopping non-Catholics from entering!!!

Have you read "The DaVinci Code"? Have you read "Angles and Demons?" I have. These books are boldly declaring that Catholicism is wrong, criminal, corrupt, and evil. Now despite how you feel about Catholicism, obviously the Vatican feels differently. Why would the Vatican allow the producers of these films onto their own ground? Why would they allow them to use their own churches/property/art to further critisize and defile the Catholic church? Why would anyone do that? Think about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by scherzo
Rome is not the center of Catholicism. The Vatican is. Are non-Catholics allowed into the Vatican? Exactly.

The way you couch this is like you've made a valid point. But your claim is utterly bogus. Of
course non-Roman Catholics are allowed in the Vatican. For example, I've been to Rome and
the Vatican twice in my life, and I even attended Mass at St Peter Basilica, and was never once
asked who I was or what I believed. Where on earth did you get such a silly idea?

And, even if they did bar non-Romans from entering the Vatican City, what would that prove?
Just that they were just as xenophobic as those who refuse entry to non-Moslems into Mecca.

Also, Ron Howard and Co. were forced to leave Rome on the Vatican's orders when filming "Angels and Demons," the upcoming prequel to "The Da Vinci Code."

Are you familiar with 'Angels and Demons?' I don't want to ruin the ending, but it basically
rests on corruption with the Roman Church as a plot point. Why should the Vatican support
this? Would you expect the local government in Ramaliah to permit a director to set up a
crew and film a movie about how all Moslems are suicide bombers? Of course not.

Nobody dares say anything against anyone Jewish anymore. They don't get that there's a difference between discriminating against Judaism (which, of course, is bad) and disliking some Jewish people (which may be ok, depending on the person).

Are you kidding? The Jewish remain one of many cultural groups that get discriminated against
for no particular reason whatsoever. Just do a little web search on 'hate jews,' and you will see
what a market there is for organizations who use Jews as scapegoats.

And a wall is being built by Zionists to separate the West Bank from pre-'67 Israel.

Well, there are justifications for the barrier, but they are, by and large, poor ones. Yes, the wall
has decreased violence in some cases, but it was at the result of stealing land from people. The
barrier is rejected by many people, except for those whom it serves as protection.

That having been said, there has been violence that inspired and drove its construction. It was
a desperate solution, but it served as a solution none the less. That barrier would not exist if
there was no violence.

This is distinct from the situation in Mecca, because there is no indication of radical Jews or
Christians trying to blow up people in Mecca. Indeed, despite you assertions to the contrary,
the violence that does occur in Mecca is entirely precipitated by Moslems.

So should we judge a religion by whether it allows non-believers into their most holy city?

I judge the people who support it as being xenophobic. Those Moslems who feel that exclusion
is silly or unjust, I judge as fair minded.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Rajk999
Here... Ive done the homework for you:

History of deaths on the Hajj

These are deaths, but no mention of suicide? You've got Nemesio all in a flap over nothing.

Originally posted by Nemesio
Originally posted by scherzo
[b]Rome is not the center of Catholicism. The Vatican is. Are non-Catholics allowed into the Vatican? Exactly.

The way you couch this is like you've made a valid point. But your claim is utterly bogus. Of
course non-Roman Catholics are allowed in the Vatican. For example, I've been to Rome and
the Vatican twi ...[text shortened]... s who feel that exclusion
is silly or unjust, I judge as fair minded.

Nemesio[/b]

Wow, well said.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
These are deaths, but no mention of suicide? You've got Nemesio all in a flap over nothing.

These two report the same story:
http://www.jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?issue_id=2898
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9504EFDB1539F934A35752C1A9659C8B63&sec=&spon=

http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/179

Two articles on the same threat of suicide bombing thwarted by a raid:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2003-06-16-saudi-arrests_x.htm
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_/ai_n11399885

It happens, though it's infrequent because they keep people out. In fact, it was in response to
the events in November 2003 that led to the increased security which contributes to the non-Moslem
prohibition.

I had forgotten that the public practice of any religion but Islam was illegal in Saudi Arabia.

How backwards can one get?

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
These two report the same story:
http://www.jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?issue_id=2898

It's not quite the same as Raj's allegation that Muslims harbour fantasies of committing suicide in Mecca.

What is the problem with Saudi Arabia? It is the Saudis in control. "Saudi Arabia is a cancer". Their intolerance of anything but their jerk-off interpretation of Islam puts them firmly in the towel-head category. What better to wrap around your head when burying it in the sand than a towel. Why the USA continues to support this monstrous joke of a country -- whose school textbooks demonise Christians, Jews and non-Wahhabist Muslims ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/19/AR2006051901769.html ) -- is beyond me. Well, actually, it's not.

As for the Kaabah, it seems iniquitous that the holiest shrine of a religion should be under the control of a national government -- especially one as sickening as the towelhead monarchy.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
It's not quite the same as Raj's allegation that Muslims harbour fantasies of committing suicide in Mecca.

I was responding to Scherzo's apparent unawareness of such suicide bombings, not to Raj's
post, and specifically his rejection of the BBC as 'Islamophobic' by getting him to give us at least
some source that he respected enough to trust as reliable. He wasn't able to do that.

Why the USA continues to support this monstrous joke of a country -- whose school textbooks demonise Christians, Jews and non-Wahhabist Muslims ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/19/AR2006051901769.html ) -- is beyond me.

I would be interested in hearing Scherzo's take on these claims.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Rajk999
Sorry, it 36 virgins ... right?
Ok 36. I thought 72 was a bit much... 😀

Are you trying to give me a heart attack?!?

Originally posted by chappy1
What's wrong with you?! Have you been to the Vatican? There is no border, you simply step up from the gutter (Rome) onto the sidewalk (the Vatican) and you're in the Vatican! There's no one stopping non-Catholics from entering!!!

Have you read "The DaVinci Code"? Have you read "Angles and Demons?" I have. These books are boldly declaring that Cathol ...[text shortened]... and defile the Catholic church? Why would anyone do that? Think about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was not allowed into the Vatican.

It's called "fiction." Of course, Christians are dedicated to believing in the truth of fiction.

Originally posted by Nemesio
Originally posted by scherzo
[b]Rome is not the center of Catholicism. The Vatican is. Are non-Catholics allowed into the Vatican? Exactly.

The way you couch this is like you've made a valid point. But your claim is utterly bogus. Of
course non-Roman Catholics are allowed in the Vatican. For example, I've been to Rome and
the Vatican twi ...[text shortened]... s who feel that exclusion
is silly or unjust, I judge as fair minded.

Nemesio[/b]

You make points here that I revoke in other posts, but your comment about using the wall for defense elicited a particularly violent physical reaction on my part.

The wall is not used for defense. It is used as a form of aggression. The Zionist settlers and the IDF who stole the land are using it for intimidation. The settlers have no viable need for defense, considering that most settlers will shoot anyone looking remotely Arab and not wearing a yarmulke. Who would've thought the Zionists would be the aggressors?!? It's blasphemous!! The Zionists are the aggressors in the West Bank. Even BBC admits it!

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
It's not quite the same as Raj's allegation that Muslims harbour fantasies of committing suicide in Mecca.

What is the problem with Saudi Arabia? It is the Saudis in control. "Saudi Arabia is a cancer". Their intolerance of anything but their jerk-off interpretation of Islam puts them firmly in the towel-head category. What better to wrap around you ...[text shortened]... control of a national government -- especially one as sickening as the towelhead monarchy.

The only reason that I'm not jumping on you for the "towel head" comment (because "towel head" is the equivalent of "ni**er"😉 is because:

a: I'm assuming you're being sarcastic (don't try it on computer ... it doesn't work ... I know that from experience)

b: The leadership in Saudi Arabia is indeed corrupt and in the pocket of the American empire.

Originally posted by Nemesio
What the heck is this? Where can I search on that site for media reports
on suicide bombing?!? It's an advertisement for a particular movie!

Look, you laid a challenge:

Originally posted by scherzo
[b]I have yet to hear of any suicide deaths in Mecca.

Rajk999 gave you a list of articles. You rejected them because of the
purported Is ...[text shortened]... sts. It would be helpful, too, if you would explain
why you trust those sources.

Nemesio[/b]

www.aljazeera.net -- It's in Arabic, but I believe an English version of the site is available at english.aljazeera.net. It gives what McCain would call "an insider's view," and considering it's centered in Qatar, it's pretty good on Arab and Muslim politics. Not too much about suicide attacks in Mecca.

LBC's site. Not sure what that is in English.

www.islam.com -- well, the URL says it all. It's the first site that you come up with on a google search for "islam" after the news articles.

Scherzo, you and ivanhoe should get together and swap paranoid stories of religious victimization.