1. SubscriberFMF
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    Is there any convincing reason to believe that Jesus was actually born in Bethlehem?

    Or was this supposed biographical detail merely an embellishment ~ albeit an important one, ideologically speaking ~ added to the Jesus story out of necessity decades after his death by people creating the nuts and bolts of a new religion?
  2. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    24 Dec '18 05:50
    @fmf said
    Is there any convincing reason to believe that Jesus was actually born in Bethlehem?

    Or was this supposed biographical detail merely an embellishment ~ albeit an important one, ideologically speaking ~ added to the Jesus story out of necessity decades after his death by people creating the nuts and bolts of a new religion?
    There's no ability to argue this convincingly without assumed reliability of the Gospels as there's no other sources.

    There's no basis to argue against this that isn't already just amounting to the more basic line of disbelief.

    No real point in discussing it because it's not like there's an alternative hypothesis or series of original sources that provide more insight into this.

    It's like asking whether or not Buddha was really a from the Shakyas or whether or not Ali or Zayd were the first converts to Islam after Mohammed...

    Why should anyone discuss a specific article of faith when you don't accept the general article of faith, and there's nothing else relevant to the talk?
  3. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Dec '18 05:52
    Philokalia, you do not have to discuss it if you don't want to.
  4. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Dec '18 05:56
    @fmf said
    Is there any convincing reason to believe that Jesus was actually born in Bethlehem?
    The Roman census at that time only applied to Judea, Samaria and Idumea and not to Galilee where Jesus’ mother and father lived. Then you have the fact that the purpose of having the census was for taxation and Roman law assessed an individual’s property where they resided and not in their birthplace.
  5. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Dec '18 06:28
    @fmf said
    Or was this supposed biographical detail merely an embellishment ~ albeit an important one, ideologically speaking ~ added to the Jesus story out of necessity decades after his death by people creating the nuts and bolts of a new religion?
    The "necessity " would have been created by the words of Micah the prophet which required the "messiah" to be a descendant of King David and to be born in Bethlehem.
  6. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    24 Dec '18 06:50
    @fmf said
    Philokalia, you do not have to discuss it if you don't want to.
    I am giving you constructive feedback on how to become a better thread starter and top knotch thinker.

    I'm helping you become a better version of yourself.

    And i am clarifying the reality here for others.
  7. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    24 Dec '18 06:54
    @fmf said
    The Roman census at that time only applied to Judea, Samaria and Idumea and not to Galilee where Jesus’ mother and father lived. Then you have the fact that the purpose of having the census was for taxation and Roman law assessed an individual’s property where they resided and not in their birthplace.
    The Wikipedia lists even more reasons as to why the Gospel of Luke account could be erroneous, while some Biblical literalists list some other possibilities, e. G., an unrecorded earlier census.
  8. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    @fmf said
    The "necessity " would have been created by the words of Micah the prophet which required the "messiah" to be a descendant of King David and to be born in Bethlehem.
    Jerusalem was more commonly recognized as the City of David and would have been a more logical choice.
  9. Standard memberKellyJay
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    @fmf said
    Philokalia, you do not have to discuss it if you don't want to.
    You do this a lot fmf you have rejected the main articles of faith then go about
    critiquing a lot of little things that could only come about if the major points were
    true. If you are missing the great truths about God, faith, scriptures what do you
    think is going to occur when you look at little things like this, just more of the
    same nothing new here.
  10. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Dec '18 07:01
    @philokalia said
    I am giving you constructive feedback on how to become a better thread starter and top knotch thinker.

    I'm helping you become a better version of yourself.

    And i am clarifying the reality here for others.
    If you believe he was born in Bethlehem because you believe he was born in Bethlehem because the Bible mentions Bethlehem and you believe the Bible, then you should not feel any onus to discuss the question the OP poses..
  11. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Dec '18 07:08
    @kellyjay said
    You do this a lot fmf you have rejected the main articles of faith then go about
    critiquing a lot of little things that could only come about if the major points were
    true. If you are missing the great truths about God, faith, scriptures what do you
    think is going to occur when you look at little things like this, just more of the
    same nothing new here.
    My loss of faith in the credibility of the Bible was not a matter of "little things". It was a big thing. You see, if the Bible is not credible - if it is concocted and contrived - then it does not inform us about "the great truths about God". If it is a not-credible revelation, then the "the main articles of faith" that it contains are neither her nor there.
  12. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    24 Dec '18 07:11
    @fmf said
    My loss of faith in the credibility of the Bible was not a matter of "little things". It was a big thing. You see, if the Bible is not credible - if it is concocted and contrived - then it does not inform us about "the great truths about God". If it is a not-credible revelation, then the "the main articles of faith" that it contains are neither her nor there.
    If you do not accept the Gospels as accurate, is there any other source of information by which there would be an accurate or alternative account of Christ?

    No.

    So why question this individual point?

    As Kelly noted.

    It doesn't make sense to reject an account and then to dwell on further rejecting aspects within the account when these are literally only relevant if the account is accepted.

    It's just beating a dead horse now, isn't it?

    Is that how you like to spend your time?
  13. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Dec '18 07:13
    @philokalia said
    Jerusalem was more commonly recognized as the City of David and would have been a more logical choice.
    I had Micah 5:2 and Luke 2:11 in mind. If the writer of "Luke" had chosen Jerusalem, then, if his objective was to make his account fulfil Micah's prophesy, then it would not "have been a more logical choice".
  14. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    24 Dec '18 07:13
    This is probably the best standard response to the census question that you would get from Christians

    https://www.gotquestions.org/Quirinius-census.html
  15. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    24 Dec '18 07:15
    @fmf said
    I had Micah 5:2 and Luke 2:11 in mind. If the writer of "Luke" had chosen Jerusalem, then, if his objective was to make his account fulfil Micah's prophesy, then it would not "have been a more logical choice".
    Jerusalem is ubiquitously known as the city of David.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_David
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