Originally posted by huckleberryhound so let me get this clear (i accept this is not the opinion of all christians)
If Ian Huntley repents, he goes to heaven, but Ghandi doesnt???
Are you saying that only christians go to heaven (or your representaton of heaven), no bhudists, muslims, daoists, Jews, or athiests.
So if Mother Theresa (may she rest in peace), turned from god in h ...[text shortened]... ).
I dont like your idea of heaven very much, i hope i haven't offended you by saying that
Let's put it this way. Only through Christ can man be saved. This means for all people who died before, during and after Christ who knew about him and may not have known about him. If there were other ways to get to God, why would God make such a huge sacrifice? Know also that God only responds to faith. Faith has more to do with believing he exists, it is an attitude that you trust him to be benevolent and faithful and not a liar. Faith is also an invitation from you for God to work in your life. In effect, you give him consent via your own free will to do his perfect will which includes saving you among other things. God honors free will. He must due to the fact he gave it to us. Putting all these characteristics together you can pick and choose who you think is saved and who is'nt. However, I don't think this is very productive and for the most part nonsensical. You and I are not God so we should not pretend to be by judging others. What we should do, rather, is examine and judge our own heart before the Almighty feels compelled to do it for us.
Edit: It says in the Bible that we are saved by grace and not works least any man boast. This means no bragging rights for anyone including the likes of Ghandi/Mother Theresa. I don't think I could stand the likes of them bragging to everyone for an eternity how great they were and are. If they are with God they are there due to his grace and his grace alone.
Originally posted by dottewell A position that could not be further from the "moral law" that is "written into the conscience of every man". Now I know you're not a Catholic, but it hardly seems fair, does it?
The kingdom of heaven is all about fair. It is only fair that the one perfect being in all of existence should receive all glory, honor and praise. Who the hell does Ghandi think he is to steal from God?
Originally posted by whodey Let's put it this way. Only through Christ can man be saved. This means for all people who died before, during and after Christ who knew about him and may not have known about him. If there were other ways to get to God, why would God make such a huge sacrifice? Know also that God only responds to faith. Faith has more to do with believing he exists, it ...[text shortened]... hey were and are. If they are with God they are there due to his grace and his grace alone.
I didnt mean to wave saint-like people at you, and i never even used the "good samaratin" card.
I merely wished to debate the question, , which is, Does non belief deny you entry ? and that goes to every religion, not just christianity.
Isnt that what theology is?
Originally posted by FreakyKBH The kingdom of heaven is all about fair. It is only fair that the one perfect being in all of existence should receive all glory, honor and praise. Who the hell does Ghandi think he is to steal from God?
what did ghandi steal from God?
stealing, thats a sin isn't it?🙂
Originally posted by lucifershammer Where do I say they aren't?
You don't, but the "natural law" loads the odds unfavourably, and arguably unfairly.
Take me; I has a christening, know something of the Bible, etc, etc, but do not believe in God for honest intellectual reasons. There is no rejection or slight. I have done nothing wrong.
Originally posted by FreakyKBH The kingdom of heaven is all about fair. It is only fair that the one perfect being in all of existence should receive all glory, honor and praise. Who the hell does Ghandi think he is to steal from God?
Yeah. Don't worry, bro, that false idol's getting his in hell.
Originally posted by huckleberryhound I didnt mean to wave saint-like people at you, and i never even used the "good samaratin" card.
I merely wished to debate the question, , which is, Does non belief deny you entry ? and that goes to every religion, not just christianity.
Isnt that what theology is?
Does nonbelief deny you entry? Having said that God requires faith as mentioned in the Bible, I dare say I do not wish to be in such a position and find out the hard way. Think about it for a second, what if one of your loved ones told you they knew of a way to save your life and you dissed them? How would that make them feel? It shows lack of respect and trust, no? If you ask me, it does not sound like a very loving thing to do. If you loved them, you would either believe them or humor them to think you believe them even though you don't think they know what they are talking about. As far as God not knowing what he is talking about, I think it safe to say he does. Make no mistake about it, faith and love go hand and hand. So much so that it states in scripture that if you have all the faith in the world to even move mountains but do not have love, you are nothing.
Originally posted by whodey Does nonbelief deny you entry? Having said that God requires faith as mentioned in the Bible, I dare say I do not wish to be in such a position and find out the hard way. Think about it for a second, what if one of your loved ones told you they knew of a way to save your life and you dissed them? How would that make them feel? It shows lack of respect and ...[text shortened]... u have all the faith in the world to even move mountains but do not have love, you are nothing.
i would first like to point out that nowhere in my postings ,ever, have i said that God (who'sever, real or fictional) doesnt know what he's talking about.
and the sign on the gate said - no dogs, no blacks, no Irish.
Originally posted by whodey Does nonbelief deny you entry? Having said that God requires faith as mentioned in the Bible, I dare say I do not wish to be in such a position and find out the hard way. Think about it for a second, what if one of your loved ones told you they knew of a way to save your life and you dissed them? How would that make them feel? It shows lack of respect and u have all the faith in the world to even move mountains but do not have love, you are nothing.
You'd rather lie to your loved ones than tell them the truth just to make them happy? If I really trusted and loved them, I'd be honest.
Originally posted by AThousandYoung You'd rather lie to your loved ones than tell them the truth just to make them happy? If I really trusted and loved them, I'd be honest.
For the most part you are correct. I was thinking in terms of loved ones who are no longer in their right minds such people with alziemers ect. Insisting they are wrong can often only agitates them and serves no productful outcome. If you have not expereinced such a tragedy I am glad for you.
Originally posted by dottewell Let's say, for the sake of argument, that you and I have done exactly the same number of "wrong" acts, and we are both equally sorry.
The only difference is that you believe in god, whereas I hold an (intellectual honest) position of atheism.
You get heaven, I get hell. To me, that seems unjust.
So it is finite mortal intellectual honesty verses the source of all intellectual honesty and understanding in the universe?
Originally posted by huckleberryhound i would first like to point out that nowhere in my postings ,ever, have i said that God (who'sever, real or fictional) doesnt know what he's talking about.
and the sign on the gate said - no dogs, no blacks, no Irish.
I just dont believe that.
I don't think that there is such a sign. Like I said, we should not waste our time judging others. We have no authority to do so and therefore the activity is mute. I believe we will all be suprised in the end because we don't know everything. However, the only thing we can be sure of is what God has promised.
Ok. This should be a quick one
24 Jun '06 01:255 edits
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