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Originally posted by menace71What you and many others assume is that what we call laws of the universe were in existence at the beginning of the universe. We who believe in the God of the Holy Bible believe God made these laws to control the universe He made.
I honestly agree..... I think many creationist just have this mentality that God did it and that's it! I'm saying they need to start with the premise that God is not deceptive ( or He is) and that it's safe to look at what we know in physics and Cosmology and understand it.... I really doubt the speed of light has ever changed otherwise all that we know ...[text shortened]... s creationist are willing to bend science beyond what is factual which bothers me....
Manny
Therefore, like KellyJay has pointed out, you can NOT use the laws as they are today to determine how and when God created it all. 😏
Originally posted by RJHindsAnd YOU cannot use the same argument to say it is 6000 years old either.
What you and many others assume is that what we call laws of the universe were in existence at the beginning of the universe. We who believe in the God of the Holy Bible believe God made these laws to control the universe he made.
Therefore, like KellyJay has pointed out, you can NOT use the laws as they are today to determine how and when God created it all. 😏
Originally posted by KellyJayThe data that science has in respect to the age of the universe is backed up in multiple ways ....Optically ...using parallax .....looking at Super Novae ....redshift ..... The universe is much larger than 12K L.Y. in diameter the contents of the entire universe could not fit into a 12K L.Y. sphere - bubble or whatever shape you would want to assign to it.....We know that the universe is indeed still expanding ( even accelerating ) not static - we know that because of the CMB that there was once a hot dense smaller universe.....It's very possible that the universe is very old ( does not mean God did not do it ) I feel that why would God make the universe look so old with all of the different proofs if it was only 6000 years old ? ( sure God could do that but why ? )
What bothers me is that some think they know how to date the universe when they do not
know how it began. Since they don't know how it began than how again do they know
what to look at to date it? If it didn't come about like some's theories suggest than all of
the data points they are trusting in are all bogus with respect to dating the universe. If tha ...[text shortened]... t is a simple
matter of not trusting completely what you really don't have any knowledge about.
Manny
Originally posted by menace71It is a very simple question, do you know how all things got here?
The data that science has in respect to the age of the universe is backed up in multiple ways ....Optically ...using parallax .....looking at Super Novae ....redshift ..... The universe is much larger than 12K L.Y. in diameter the contents of the entire universe could not fit into a 12K L.Y. sphere - bubble or whatever shape you would want to assign to it ...[text shortened]... ifferent proofs if it was only 6000 years old ? ( sure God could do that but why ? )
Manny
Without that answer you don't know the things that were on going processes at the
moment they were started. Light could have been created in transit from one point to
another and so on. If you know how it all began we can than talk about what it is we
can measure to give us the age, otherwise we are just giving our best theories and so
on, no one really knows.
Originally posted by menace71"I feel that why would God make the universe look so old with all of the different proofs if it was only 6000 years old ? "
The data that science has in respect to the age of the universe is backed up in multiple ways ....Optically ...using parallax .....looking at Super Novae ....redshift ..... The universe is much larger than 12K L.Y. in diameter the contents of the entire universe could not fit into a 12K L.Y. sphere - bubble or whatever shape you would want to assign to it ...[text shortened]... ifferent proofs if it was only 6000 years old ? ( sure God could do that but why ? )
Manny
Having never watched a universe being created myself I cannot say and be without a
doubt sure that a 6K universe looks like the one we have. I have never witnessed a
billion year old one start either, so same thing goes, never seeing it leaves me guessing
what would one look like either way.
Now if I were to create one out of nothing what traces would be left so that someone else
could know how old my universe was? No idea, yet you want to accuse God of being
deceptive because you claim you have knowledge you really don't, which is how old the
universe is by looking at it?
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Originally posted by KellyJayThere is a problem with man being able to completely figure out the nature of his total environment. He can know some things. But apart from God's revelation (Heb. 11:3) I don't think we could have total discovery or complete understanding.
"I feel that why would God make the universe look so old with all of the different proofs if it was only 6000 years old ? "
Having never watched a universe being created myself I cannot say and be without a
doubt sure that a 6K universe looks like the one we have. I have never witnessed a
billion year old one start either, so same thing goes, never see ...[text shortened]... u claim you have knowledge you really don't, which is how old the
universe is by looking at it?
Someone said something like this - "I don't know who first discovered water. But it probably wasn't a fish."
Originally posted by menace71The Holy Bible reveals there was a worldwide flood about 4400 years ago. So you either believe the prophet of God or you don't. The way I see it, if you choose to disbelieve what the prophets wrote, then what is the point of believing any of it?
The data that science has in respect to the age of the universe is backed up in multiple ways ....Optically ...using parallax .....looking at Super Novae ....redshift ..... The universe is much larger than 12K L.Y. in diameter the contents of the entire universe could not fit into a 12K L.Y. sphere - bubble or whatever shape you would want to assign to it ...[text shortened]... ifferent proofs if it was only 6000 years old ? ( sure God could do that but why ? )
Manny
As the apostle Paul wrote, if Christ did not rise from the dead, then your faith is in vain.
Originally posted by KellyJayOne can look at an old man know he is old without knowing exactly when he was born. One can look at a babe and know it is younger than the old man, without knowing when the babe was born.
What bothers me is that some think they know how to date the universe when they do not
know how it began. Since they don't know how it began than how again do they know
what to look at to date it? If it didn't come about like some's theories suggest than all of
the data points they are trusting in are all bogus with respect to dating the universe. If tha ...[text shortened]... t is a simple
matter of not trusting completely what you really don't have any knowledge about.
Same with stars: we have very good evidence that they have life spans greater than 6k years, without knowing how the universe began.
Originally posted by KellyJayYour own ignorance is no excuse to say that other people are without knowledge. Everybody here knows perfectly well that your oft repeated argument that without omniscience we can know nothing is a bad argument - and that you don't believe it yourself.
No idea, yet you want to accuse God of being
deceptive because you claim you have knowledge you really don't, which is how old the
universe is by looking at it?
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Originally posted by moonbusYes, because we see man today being born and dying. Have you seen the first man to know
One can look at an old man know he is old without knowing exactly when he was born. One can look at a babe and know it is younger than the old man, without knowing when the babe was born.
Same with stars: we have very good evidence that they have life spans greater than 6k years, without knowing how the universe began.
how he got here? Which is basically the same question as how old the universe is, you
can assume things that cannot be proven, which MEANS you do not know. I'm simply
pointing out to you that you cannot know these things it is beyond our abilities, we can
come up with the rhetorical beyond that *knowing* is not something in truth we can do.
Originally posted by moonbusNo one has ever seen a star in heaven come into being. Astronomers have discovered a new star after obtaining a stronger telescope, but they don't know when it actually came into existence.
One can look at an old man know he is old without knowing exactly when he was born. One can look at a babe and know it is younger than the old man, without knowing when the babe was born.
Same with stars: we have very good evidence that they have life spans greater than 6k years, without knowing how the universe began.
We only see things the way they appear today. Any astronomer, like Hugh Ross, that claims he can look back into time to the beginning of the universe is not telling the truth.
All their calculations are fine and dandy, but they tell nothing about the age of the earth. 😏
Originally posted by DeepThoughtSonhouse can believe anything he wants to be a fact, but it has no effect on the fact. 😏
He is not asking how old the Earth is, but how old Whodey thinks the Earth is. So it was a question about someone else's opinion of what sonhouse believes is a fact rather than a question about the fact itself.