One Christian's understanding of atheism:

Originally posted by wolfgang59
While I agree that there is a large proportion of atheists who wish
religion did not exist I think many of those same atheists (myself included) would defend the right of anyone to hold any belief.

Certainly the atheists seem to take the side of minorities when
they are being bashed on this forum.l

Neither atheists nor theists should ever stoop to 'bashing'; it's a symptom of emotional frustration or intellectual poverty.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
While I agree that there is a large proportion of atheists who wish
religion did not exist I think many of those same atheists (myself included) would defend the right of anyone to hold any belief.

Certainly the atheists seem to take the side of minorities when
they are being bashed on this forum.l

Exactly.

As much as I would like to see the end of religion [and all faith based beliefs]
if I had a magic button that instantly made everyone stop holding religious and
faith based beliefs I wouldn't press it. Because that would be a vile and violent
attack on theists minds and rights/liberties.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Replies and tone of meaning provided new information which I assimilated then summarized my understanding. As I've said before, "Like the Vermont Farmer I take my milk from many cows and then make my own butter". Thanks for participating.

Once again GB refuses to answer a question asked of him. One wonders why he bothered to reply at all. Perhaps to give appearances that he is being responsive?

The post that was quoted here has been removed

Now you have got yourself into a catch 22 situation. You are intolerant towards Sam Harris because he claims that Muslims are intolerant towards non-Muslims. Should we also be intolerant of your because you expressed your intolerance of Sam Harris?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Once again GB refuses to answer a question asked of him. One wonders why he bothered to reply at all. Perhaps to give appearances that he is being responsive?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (OP)
One Christian's understanding of atheism:

First, my thanks to the dozens of atheists who have patiently or impatiently listened to numerous questions and comments and replied to the best of their ability. Since Thanksgiving, 2013, lights have gradually come on to illuminate the previous darkness shrouding the topic. My vocabulary has also become enhanced with a few new words and definitions of old ones.

A hardnosed director of sales and marketing once set a boardroom full of subordinates straight on the most effective method of getting to the crux of unresolved issues and impossible challenges. We listened with rapt attention as John quietly spelled out his pragmatic method: "We get to the bottom of things with adroit questioning; continuing until we get down to the essence of the issue, challenge or problem: that which makes it what it is; we distill it to its irreducible entity then solve it".

Please know that I've done my level best to give due diligence in applying his successful method in grasping what's real and authentic relative to atheism on this forum. At its simplest, the word 'atheism' describes or defines the category of human beings who, at some point of god-curiosity or god-consciousness, have voluntarily decided they have no interest in knowing anything about god or of the possibility of a personal relationship with him. Deep within their innermost beings they have decided god doesn't exist; they've become convinced that further inquiry would be a colossal waste of time and energy.

In biblical terms: "Romans 1:18-20 New American Standard Bible Unbelief and Its Consequences:" "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." I believe an atheist at the point of god-consciousness (becoming aware of the possible existence of a supreme being and accountable for a personal choice for or against god) says, 'no'.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Out of curiosity, in what ways is what you have written here conceptually different from what you would have written prior to your 2+ month long "investigation".

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Replies and tone of meaning provided new information which I assimilated then summarized my understanding. As I've said before, "Like the Vermont Farmer I take my milk from many cows and then make my own butter". Thanks for participating.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Once again GB refuses to answer a question asked of him. One wonders why he bothered to reply at all. Perhaps to give appearances that he is being responsive?

Learning requires unlearning; what I "would have written prior" to Thanksgiving, 2013, is available in site forum archives.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (OP)
[b]One Christian's understanding of atheism:

First, my thanks to the dozens of atheists who have patiently or impatiently listened to numerous questions and comments and replied to the best of their ability. Since Thanksgiving, 2013, lights have gradually come on to illuminate the previous darkness ...[text shortened]... g; what I "would have written prior" to Thanksgiving, 2013, is available in site forum archives.[/b]

ToO to GB: "Out of curiosity, in what ways is what you have written here conceptually different from what you would have written prior to your 2+ month long "investigation"?


Once again GB refuses to answer a question asked of him. One wonders why he bothered to reply at all. Perhaps to give appearances that he is being responsive?

Seeing as GB's current "understanding of atheism" seems to be entirely viewed through the lens of Pauline Christianity and seems to have ignored what atheists on this forum have repeatedly told him, the answer seems to be that there's no conceptual difference. No wonder GB has refused to answer. He doesn't want to have to admit that his efforts have been "a colossal waste of time and energy".

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
ToO to GB: "Out of curiosity, in what ways is what you have written here conceptually different from what you would have written prior to your 2+ month long "investigation"?


Once again GB refuses to answer a question asked of him. One wonders why he bothered to reply at all. Perhaps to give appearances that he is being responsive?

Seeing as GB's ...[text shortened]... doesn't want to have to admit that his efforts have been "a colossal waste of time and energy".

“The world is a good judge of things, for it is in natural ignorance, which is man's true state. The sciences have two extremes which meet. The first is the pure natural ignorance in which all men find themselves at birth. The other extreme is that reached by great intellects, who, having run through all that men can know, find they know nothing, and come back again to that same ignorance from which they set out; but this is a learned ignorance which is conscious of itself. Those between the two, who have departed from natural ignorance and not been able to reach the other, have some smattering of this vain knowledge and pretend to be wise. These trouble the world and are bad judges of everything. The people and the wise constitute the world; these despise it, and are despised. They judge badly of everything, and the world judges rightly of them.” -Blaise Pascal, Pensées Thread 156956

Toss all the argumentation and labels, all the distinctions without a difference, all the self justification and facile attempts at achieving an intellectual elitism... what remains are three spiritual categories of human beings: a) Ignorance at birth; Subsequently, "Yes" or "No" at God Consciousness: b) Rejection of the existence of God with zero interest in pursuing the possibility of being wrong; and c) Acceptance of the existence of God with the desire to learn more about Him.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]One Christian's understanding of atheism:

First, my thanks to the dozens of atheists who have patiently or impatiently listened to numerous questions and comments and replied to the best of their ability. Since Thanksgiving, 2013, lights have gradually come on to illuminate the previous darkness shrouding the topic. My vocabulary has also bec ...[text shortened]... istence of a supreme being and accountable for a personal choice for or against god) says, 'no'.[/b]

Ok, so to sum up...

You have asked Atheists what they believe, and thy have told you numerous times. You have also posted numerous quote by theists about what they think atheists believe and again the atheists on this forum have corrected those views and told you what they actually believe.

And what have you taken from this exercise? That atheists believe what theists think they believe and not what atheists themselves tell you that they believe.

Why did you bother asking the atheists at all?

Penguin.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]One Christian's understanding of atheism:

First, my thanks to the dozens of atheists who have patiently or impatiently listened to numerous questions and comments and replied to the best of their ability. Since Thanksgiving, 2013, lights have gradually come on to illuminate the previous darkness shrouding the topic. My vocabulary has also bec ...[text shortened]... istence of a supreme being and accountable for a personal choice for or against god) says, 'no'.[/b]

At its simplest, the word 'atheism' describes or defines the category of human beings who, at some point of god-curiosity or god-consciousness, have voluntarily decided they have no interest in knowing anything about god or of the possibility of a personal relationship with him. Deep within their innermost beings they have decided god doesn't exist; they've become convinced that further inquiry would be a colossal waste of time and energy.

Can you point to the post(s) from which you draw this conclusion?

I believe an atheist at the point of god-consciousness (becoming aware of the possible existence of a supreme being and accountable for a personal choice for or against god) says, 'no'.

Again, can you point to the post(s) that informed this belief?

I am honestly interested in the thought processes that led you to this, because it certainly does not describe myself, and I can't offhand think of a single atheist that it does describe. It seems that you have sadly wasted your time since at the end of your exercise to understand atheists, you have completely failed to understand atheists and have indeed learned nothing at all.

Penguin.

Originally posted by Penguin
[quote]At its simplest, the word 'atheism' describes or defines the category of human beings who, at some point of god-curiosity or god-consciousness, have voluntarily decided they have no interest in knowing anything about god or of the possibility of a personal relationship with him. Deep within their innermost beings they have decided god doesn't exist; t ...[text shortened]... ave completely failed to understand atheists and have indeed learned nothing at all.

Penguin.

"I am honestly interested in the thought processes that led you to this,
because it certainly does not describe myself..." Penguin

Please describe yourself so that we'll have two points of comparison. Thanks.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"I am honestly interested in the thought processes that led you to this,
because it certainly does not describe myself..." Penguin

Please describe yourself so that we'll have two points of comparison. Thanks.

Err, sorry? Were you not listening at all over the few threads you started?

Originally posted by Penguin
Err, sorry? Were you not listening at all over the few threads you started?

Yes; read your words with care. Please summarize points of difference between your understanding of atheism and mine.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Yes; read your words with care. Please summarize points of difference between your understanding of atheism and mine.

He has one, you don't.

Originally posted by googlefudge
He has one, you don't.

googlefudge, does the site profile text accurately summarize your understanding of atheism?

"About googlefudge

"Vos existimantur cogitare, Antequam vos infringere regulas.

If you believe in a god or gods and claim to know it or they exist then you're a "gnostic theist".

If you believe in a god or gods and don't know if it or they exist then you're an "agnostic theist".

If you don't believe in a god or gods and don't know if it or they exist then you're an "agnostic atheist".

If you don't believe in a god or gods and claim to know if it or they doesn't exist then you're a "gnostic atheist".

http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/09/25/8419/

In general I am an agnostic atheist, but I am a gnostic atheist with respect to some/many proposed gods....

But this tells you almost nothing about me as my atheism is a result of my beliefs and values and is not the
source of them.

It is a statement of the absence of belief based on blind irrational faith.

http://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/what-is-atheism

http://www.rejectionofpascalswager.net/atheistdefine.html

http://atheistexperience.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/matts-superiority-of-secular-morality.html

YouTube&feature=channel_video_title

http://yudkowsky.net/rational/bayes

http://lesswrong.com/lw/1to/what_is_bayesianism/

http://oscarbonilla.com/2009/05/visualizing-bayes-theorem/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_probability"