Originally posted by @fmfSo you're just going to aim a personal remark at me instead of addressing the topic?
So you're just going to aim a personal remark at me instead of addressing the topic? What about what galveston75 said about your ideology?
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Yes.
What about what galveston75 said about your ideology?
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Oh, that can wait. Right now, a personal remark about your trolling.
Okay, remark over now
This subject Only God's judgment is infallible has made more sense to over time.
If there is no possible higher umpire, no possible higher righteousness, no possible "more right" referee or no higher more merciful court of appeal that can exist, then eternal destinies make sense to me.
Revulsion at the thought of being separated from God forever, punished forever, are based on the assumption of the faulty, unrighteous God who needs some HIGHER Determiner to fix His supposedly erroneous judgments.
I am not a man without feelings. But when I think about the matter that there is a rightness above which a more rightness cannot exist, then the prospect of eternal punishment, sadly, makes sense.
Embellishing this with horrid details doing their best to stir human sympathy doesn't change this. These special effects that people like to add in order to strongly compel revulsion at the thought of eternal punishment, may 1.) just be your imagination, 2.) do not negate that beyond God, there is no greater righteous forgiveness or mercy.
That's how I see it.
I spend more time contemplating what Christ has done that we might be saved.
Originally posted by @sonshipA pity that you weren't more willing to engage with discussion in the first 1-2 pages of the thread. But some people just want to have conversations with themselves, I suppose.
Okay, remark over now
This subject [b]Only God's judgment is infallible has made more sense to over time.
If there is no possible higher umpire, no possible higher righteousness, no possible "more right" referee or no higher more merciful court of appeal that can exist, then eternal destinies make sense to me.
Revulsion at the thought of being ...[text shortened]... s how I see it.
I spend more time contemplating what Christ has done that we might be saved.[/b]
Originally posted by @sonshipBut I'm not trolling. My question is on-topic. Why wait? What galveston75 said was "The teaching of a burning place that wicked humans go to suffer forever is not a bible teaching but is from pagan religions of the past."
FMF: What about what galveston75 said about your ideology?
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Oh, that can wait. Right now, a personal remark about your trolling.
Have you looked into the pagan religions of the past that galveston75 has suggested your torturer god ideology comes from?
Originally posted by @sonshipThe supposed "perfect morality", in your personal view, of neverending torment of some kind as an angry revenge for failing to have the same religious beliefs as you just so happen to have. That's pretty much the unembellished long and short of it.
Embellishing this with horrid details doing their best to stir human sympathy doesn't change this.
Originally posted by @fmfThat is just a another addition to your list of strawman arguments which you collect like dolls.
The supposed "perfect morality", in your personal view, of neverending torment of some kind as an angry revenge for failing to have the same religious beliefs as you just so happen to have. That's pretty much the unembellished long and short of it.
Basically I take this complaint as a suggestion that God should recuse Himself from being the ultimate Judge because of being personally involved.
ie. The Judge of all the universe should have nothing personal involved in judging so as not to give the impression of bias.
"Oh, you don't like ME. Well I'll get back at you then with punishment."
I've been through this before. Your objection is like accusing a civil judge of being personally offended for enacting my offense against the law so as to incarcerate me. "He just doesn't like you and is petty with personal revenge."
I believe one Ultimate Governor, Creator, and Savior God is over all. And though He is mysteriously triune He is one. There is not another Legislator to whom this one God will turn over the responsibility of ultimate governance in order to recuse Himself and not give an impression of undue personal bias.
You're opting to trying to argue that I believe what I do because I insist that my opinion should not be disagreed with.
And/or you're reasoning that if God cannot recuse Himself then any ultimate judgment is unjustly influenced by personal bias.
Maybe arguments like this could move me if I were not a careful reader of the Bible. I mean, just sitting daydreaming about things I don't like. As it stands this kind of slanderous reasoning doesn't impress me.
As for "perfect morality" ? Who else has lived on this planet who you would say more perfectly manifests a morality of the highest known degree, beside Jesus Christ ?
Since I recognize Christ as displaying the highest degree of righteousness, I feel compelled to take His words and teaching seriously. And it is from Him that I learned about ultimate forgiveness and ultimate condemnation.
I didn't learn it from another. Who would you suggest speaks with greater authority on the subject and whose life displays a consistent level of acts demonstrating expertise in that area ?
Originally posted by @bigdoggproblem
...but yours IS fallible, so excuse me if I don't take your word for it.
This isn't a mere snark...it's a serious question. How can a being with (often self-admittedly) fallible judgment verify that another's judgment is INfallible?
Wouldn't a more reasonable claim be "I have never known being X to have made a wrong judgment."?
A pity that you weren't more willing to engage with discussion in the first 1-2 pages of the thread. But some people just want to have conversations with themselves, I suppose.
If this below here is the OP to this thread, it seems pretty much of a personal chat between you and a specific one poster.
Look at the way you begin.
...but yours IS fallible, so excuse me if I don't take your word for it.
? .. ?
I think there's the "pity": a pitiful opening to a public discussion.
Originally posted by @sonshipYou are talking to me as if I share the same superstitions as you do. That's why just about everything you have to say has no practical moral value for humanity at large ~ as you demonstrate time and time again ~ and is only suited for preaching to the choir.
That is just a another addition to your list of strawman arguments which you collect like dolls.
Basically I take this complaint as a suggestion that God should recuse Himself from being the ultimate Judge because of being personally involved.
ie. The Judge of all the universe should have nothing personal involved in judging so as not to give the im ...[text shortened]... the law so as to incarcerate me. "He just doesn't like you and is petty with personal revenge."
Originally posted by @sonshipI know how he has been portrayed by those erecting a cult of personality around him and what countless breathless followers have waffled on about him over the centuries. But so what? Is "Jesus Christ" central to the nonsensical grotesque "moral" ideology you propagate? Yes, he is. Your torturer god theology is the most depraved thing ever dreamed up by mankind. Is Jesus not the lynchpin of it?
As for "perfect morality" ? Who else has lived on this planet who you would say more perfectly manifests a morality of the highest known degree, beside Jesus Christ ?
Originally posted by @fmfDid one of your parents torture you as a kid ?
But I'm not trolling. My question is on-topic. Why wait? What galveston75 said was "The teaching of a burning place that wicked humans go to suffer forever is not a bible teaching but is from pagan religions of the past."
Have you looked into the pagan religions of the past that galveston75 has suggested your torturer god ideology comes from?
Originally posted by @sonshipCome on, we have made science fiction movies better than that fantasy tale.
The symbol of a sea of glass mingled with fire in [b]Revelation means, I believe, that we eventually will see crystal clearly with no such obscurity or ambiguity, that God's judgment is absolutely infallible and righteous.
Everything under Gods judgement by then the will be transparently clear as crystal glass. The saved stand upon the shore ...[text shortened]... ship before You, for Your righteous judgments have been manifested." (Rev. 15:2-4) [/b] [/quote][/b]
Originally posted by @sonshipOnly Christians recognize this supernatural "authority" you speak of. The "authority" is only perceived and acted upon by Christians. Your question is therefore a question for Christians and not non-believers. Non-believers don't have to offer you a mythology that you will think trumps yours in order to confront you about the moral incoherence of what you peddle.
Who would you suggest speaks with greater authority on the subject and whose life displays a consistent level of acts demonstrating expertise in that area ?