Originally posted by kirksey957
A couple of things of interest in the article. First he admits that being tenured gives him the luxury to state his beliefs without employment reprisal. Every Baptist pastor I know lives with that insecurity. Yet, I also know some who say "Good, fire me if you want. I will be in integrity with my beliefs." The other thing I found of interest is tha ...[text shortened]... admonitions from Jesus on homosexuality and that gives him permission to address the problem.

Another thing of interest in the article I noticed is the attempt by the professor to admonish the church. While it is true that there are Christians who are immature and use language that is offensive to homosexuals, mature Christians do not. To state that homosexuality is a sin, and to warn those who's lives are in rebellion against the laws of God and nature is an act of love.
The message of Christ is His great love for us, all of us. Jesus gave His life for us, and it is because of His love for us that we are motivated to love Him in return. Jesus said, "If you love me, you will obey me".
In the gospel of John it is said that if all the things that Jesus had said and done were to be written down the world could not contain them. Jesus kept the whole law, and it is stated in the law that homosexuality is a sin. Just because Jesus didn't directly address the issue of homosexuality doesn't mean He gave tacit approval.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I don't think that you can support this statement.

It's been my experience that homosexuals have been and continue to be a group that is as subject to hatred and bigotry by "Christians" as any other if not more. The fact that so many do so so openly make it all the more egregious.

The acts of the few does not speak for the majority of Christians. Go over to the middle east. They kill homosexuals there.

The idea that homosexuals suffer more abuse than others is laughable. As a matter of fact it has been my experience that homosexuals heap a great deal more abuse on each other than they receive from anyone else.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
And what does this have to do with the topic?

[b]"The most rejected, the most hated, the most abandoned, the most feared, the most loathed, the most despised, the most mocked,.."

He could have been referring to Christians in this statement the way things are going in the world today.[/b]

Nothing. It was just an aside.

Originally posted by josephw
The acts of the few does not speak for the majority of Christians. Go over to the middle east. They kill homosexuals there.

The idea that homosexuals suffer more abuse than others is laughable. As a matter of fact it has been my experience that homosexuals heap a great deal more abuse on each other than they receive from anyone else.

You simultaneously:
1. admit that homosexuals get killed for being homosexual.
and
2. find the idea that homosexuals experience an abnormal amount of abuse laughable.

And why wont you tell us what you meant by your 'aside' about "the way things are going in the world today".
Are we wrong to think you have a persecution complex?

Originally posted by twhitehead
You are claiming that most heterosexuals endure more hatred and bigotry than homosexuals? Where do you live?

And please explain to the comment that AThousandYoung was questioning. At face value it looks like you were claiming that Christians are particularly downtrodden. If you did not mean that, then what did you mean?

You are claiming that most heterosexuals endure more hatred and bigotry than homosexuals?

Of course not. Hatred, bigotry, and prejudice is not how I would describe what the homosexual is suffering in light of the history of this world. There are others that have suffered much more.

It is a fact that the average homosexual in this country makes more money and is better educated as a member of a minority group than any other minority.

Are Christians particularly down trodden you ask? I doubt it. Hatred, bigotry, and prejudice is global.

Originally posted by twhitehead
You simultaneously:
1. admit that homosexuals get killed for being homosexual.
and
2. find the idea that homosexuals experience an abnormal amount of abuse laughable.

And why wont you tell us what you meant by your 'aside' about "the way things are going in the world today".
Are we wrong to think you have a persecution complex?

Are you geographically confused?

Did you read the article posted by Kirksey?

You are mix-juxtaposing the concepts.

Originally posted by josephw
Of course not. Hatred, bigotry, and prejudice is not how I would describe what the homosexual is suffering in light of the history of this world. There are others that have suffered much more.

So you are saying that because some people have suffered genocide, those suffering under apartheid do not deserve the word 'suffering'?

Are homosexuals hated by a significant number of people?
Do homosexuals come on the receiving end of bigotry significantly often?
Do homosexuals often suffer from other peoples prejudice?
If you answer yes to even one of those then you have shown that you are wrong and are probably making such ludicrous statements because of your own prejudice against them.

It is a fact that the average homosexual in this country makes more money and is better educated as a member of a minority group than any other minority.
That is not true. I am sure that 'geeky scientists' are a minority, yet are better educated and make more money than the average homosexual.
The issue had nothing to do with wealth or education, it had to do with hatred, bigotry and prejudice. Even a rich, well educated person can suffer at the hands of other peoples hatred, bigotry and prejudice.

Originally posted by josephw
Are you geographically confused?

Did you read the article posted by Kirksey?

You are mix-juxtaposing the concepts.

I don't understand. Please elaborate.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I don't understand. Please elaborate.

It looks like it's just you and me in here this morning. It's morning here anyway.

Look. All I'm saying I'm trying to keep within the context of the original post by Kirksey and the statements made by the author of the article.

Homosexuals do not have a corner on bigotry. Homosexuals are a very small minority with a very loud voice. In America the homosexual is part of a privileged class of influential people who want their way. Truthfully, they are a part of a much larger problem. That problem is immorality, and it has infected virtually all segments of our society. Alcoholism, drug abuse, rape and murder, child abuse of all forms, and a host of other crimes are detrimental to peaceful coexistence.

Having said that, I'm sure I'll be accused of bigotry. It is the result of the acceptance of that which is against God that clouds the mind of the unbeliever into twisting the truth around and making those who stand for morality look like the bigots. It's a never ending battle.

Originally posted by josephw
Homosexuals do not have a corner on bigotry.

I never said they did, but that is no reason whatsoever for dismissing bigotry against them.

Homosexuals are a very small minority with a very loud voice. In America the homosexual is part of a privileged class of influential people who want their way.
I find that hard to believe. What exactly enables homosexuals to gain those privileges? You are almost tempting me to claim to be homosexual and come to the states!
Or do you believe that homosexuality is a choice? I personally think it is something people are born with and occurs in both rich and poor families indiscriminately.

Truthfully, they are a part of a much larger problem. That problem is immorality, and it has infected virtually all segments of our society.
Do you believe it has got worse over time? Do you have evidence for that? I come from a country where immorality has been a way of life throughout recorded history.

Its mid afternoon here.

Originally posted by twhitehead
You simultaneously:
1. admit that homosexuals get killed for being homosexual.
and
2. find the idea that homosexuals experience an abnormal amount of abuse laughable.

And why wont you tell us what you meant by your 'aside' about "the way things are going in the world today".
Are we wrong to think you have a persecution complex?

You simultaneously:
1. admit that homosexuals get killed for being homosexual.
and
2. find the idea that homosexuals experience an abnormal amount of abuse laughable.

That is deceptive, Josephw never said that he found the idea homosexuals experience abuse laughable - he said he found the idea that homosexuals experience more abuse than others to be laughable.

And Josephw has some substance in his claim. Only a few weeks ago, a Chaldean bishop was murdered in Iraq - a year after a group of priests were killed. Perhaps the issue is not prevalent in Western world, but it is outside that cosy club of developed countries.

Originally posted by pawnhandler
Find a passage in the gospel in which Jesus's words support your beliefs.

Which beliefs are those?

I suspect that you probably don't understand that KM's comment and my response has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

Originally posted by josephw
The acts of the few does not speak for the majority of Christians. Go over to the middle east. They kill homosexuals there.

The idea that homosexuals suffer more abuse than others is laughable. As a matter of fact it has been my experience that homosexuals heap a great deal more abuse on each other than they receive from anyone else.

What does 'the majority', 'the Middle East' and 'more abuse' have to do with the topic?

The fact remains that there are many Christians that exhibit hatred and a bigotted attitude towards homosexuals. Take whodey for example, who stated that he would be willing to ostracize homosexuals from his church while casting a blind eye towards pride, gluttony, greed, etc.

You are in some serious denial if you think that homosexuals don't suffer from "hatred, mockery, loathing, fear and rejection" in the US by many Christians as well as the general population. Likely this denial is a symptom of your own bigotry.

Originally posted by josephw

In America the homosexual is part of a privileged class of influential people who want their way.

Just to make a point, this is patently untrue, and shows an extreme lack of experience in dealing with homosexuals. It's not a choice, and thus cannot be restricted to a "privileged class". I'm currently in florida, and the people I know here are open minded relaxed people from a small town. Thus I've come across a large number of homosexuals in the last 2 weeks, actually some of em are devout "church on sunday" Christians it turns out which I find odd. I can promise you that they're not part of a Privileged class, most of those I've met, have little if any money and certainly no influence.

I hate to break it to you but Homosexuality isn't a completely chosen way of life, although choice my be a factor, so is genetics, and influences in early life, before we can make true rational choices. I actually know one or two gay men who would certainly choose otherwise if they could, where I'm from it can be a difficult path to tell you friends and family that your gay.