1. Standard memberKellyJay
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    16 Feb '19 11:13
    @proper-knob said
    What ‘science leads’ to dinosaurs living on a boat floating on a flooded earth in the last few thousand years?
    None that I'm aware of. You look at the other video yet?
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    16 Feb '19 13:56
    @kellyjay said
    I'm more confident with design and numbers. Which is what that second video was about. I'm not sure if you watched the second one someone in the field was going over the numbers.

    [youtube]16ZF-9ZjPAU [/youtube]
    The numbers are only correct if he's correct about the biology.
  3. Standard memberKellyJay
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    16 Feb '19 15:04
    @stellspalfie said
    The numbers are only correct if he's correct about the biology.
    You don't think he is?
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    16 Feb '19 17:19
    @kellyjay said
    You don't think he is?
    He doesn't fill me with much confidence. Do you question the biology? Or do you just accept that its right?
  5. Standard memberKellyJay
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    16 Feb '19 17:301 edit
    @stellspalfie said
    He doesn't fill me with much confidence. Do you question the biology? Or do you just accept that its right?
    I accept it, you disagree? Where and why?
    You disagree with anything he said about the make up of a protein, from its make up or what that means as far the odds on putting it together?
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    16 Feb '19 17:51
    @kellyjay said
    I accept it, you disagree? Where and why?
    You disagree with anything he said about the make up of a protein, from its make up or what that means as far the odds on putting it together?
    You just accept it? No questions asked. You like what he's saying, so despite him not being a molecular biologist, or even just a biologist. You just take him at his word...………..interesting.
  7. Standard memberKellyJay
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    16 Feb '19 18:04
    @stellspalfie said
    You just accept it? No questions asked. You like what he's saying, so despite him not being a molecular biologist, or even just a biologist. You just take him at his word...………..interesting.
    If you have an issue with what was put forward give me your reasons why. If you want to just make this all about me, we can stop because you are only attempting to make this personal, and doing that isn't interesting its sad.
  8. Standard memberBigDogg
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    16 Feb '19 18:06
    @kellyjay said
    I have to assume you are speaking to ID and undirected processes. I think it is a slam dunk on designs side, random acts couldn’t do something this complex under perfect conditions let alone in the midst of a hostile environment!
    Sure, it's easy if you do a calculation after you posit a designer.

    But what were the odds of a god existing without a cause? If that is no more likely than an unguided big bang [etc.] then what good is the argument from probability in general?
  9. Standard memberKellyJay
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    16 Feb '19 18:172 edits
    @bigdoggproblem said
    Sure, it's easy if you do a calculation after you posit a designer.

    But what were the odds of a god existing without a cause? If that is no more likely than an unguided big bang [etc.] then what good is the argument from probability in general?
    I said earlier there were basically three positions of how the universe began, all things in it, with variations of each. I'm willing to look at others, but feel most if not all will all fall out into one of these three.

    Everything from nothing.
    Everything created by cause.
    Everything always was.

    If there are other reasons that do not fall into any of these please feel free to bring them into the discussion.

    None of those if you are looking at something that has 1/20 chance from occurring randomly changes the odds of 1/20 no matter how things started. Now if someone simply moves things around we are no longer talking about a 1/20 chance it was done with intent. If something had a 1/20 chance of occurring randomly and it had to occur 150 times perfectly to occur, the numbers of it actually happening get smaller, and if there are more things required, the odds increase against it. Again none of this changes if its done randomly. See the last video for the details on life, dispute it if you think he is wrong on any point.

    The question about if God exists without cause is a 1/2 either yes or no. If no then there is no God that always existed, if yes then God is.
  10. Standard memberBigDogg
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    16 Feb '19 19:09
    @kellyjay said
    I said earlier there were basically three positions of how the universe began, all things in it, with variations of each. I'm willing to look at others, but feel most if not all will all fall out into one of these three.

    Everything from nothing.
    Everything created by cause.
    Everything always was.

    If there are other reasons that do not fall into any of these please fe ...[text shortened]... cause is a 1/2 either yes or no. If no then there is no God that always existed, if yes then God is.
    Your own belief does not, to my mind, fit into any of the three categories you gave. I would classify it as: God always was; everything else was created by cause.

    I'm probably not going to watch the video, because I think the probability argument is not useful in determining origins. Probability is more useful before the fact; arguments such as this are after the fact; meaning, after the universe and its life exist.

    It would be like saying a lottery winner couldn't possibly have won, simply because their odds were infinitesimal [say, one in several hundred million]. That fact is irrelevant after they actually win. The only probability left after the fact is the 100% probability that that person won.
  11. Standard memberKellyJay
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    16 Feb '19 19:15
    @stellspalfie said
    You just accept it? No questions asked. You like what he's saying, so despite him not being a molecular biologist, or even just a biologist. You just take him at his word...………..interesting.
    YouTube

    A biologist.
  12. Standard memberKellyJay
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    16 Feb '19 19:251 edit
    @bigdoggproblem said
    Your own belief does not, to my mind, fit into any of the three categories you gave. I would classify it as: God always was; everything else was created by cause.

    I'm probably not going to watch the video, because I think the probability argument is not useful in determining origins. Probability is more useful before the fact; arguments such as this are af ...[text shortened]... y win. The only probability left [i]after the fact is the 100% probability that that person won.
    A search for truth should be done by not just looking at those things that agree with us but possible things that can destroy what we believe. God is outside of the universe and is completely unaffected by anything in it, time, space, matter, energy none of these bind God, but God as the creator and maintainer of all things is in charge, as many of His followers like to call Him, He is the King of the universe.

    If God created the universe and declares we can know about Him by looking at it then we can assume there are things the universe can tell us about God from the smallest details to the largest, since He is all knowing, all powerful, and timeless there is nothing about the whole or any part He isn't giving His full attention to at any point.

    Figuring out odds shows us the likelihood of natural processes doing something. If you have studied scripture Old or New Testaments you will see when God chooses to do something in our universe He always does it such a way that no one can claim natural processes, the very old having kids, born of a virgin, rising from the dead. Clues that the natural world cannot produce what many claim are events done by God though chance. The creation of time, space, matter and everything within the universe is either a material event that we can explain or not, the same with life.
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    16 Feb '19 21:03
    @kellyjay said
    [youtube] te3aShKST1A [/youtube]

    A biologist.
    Its a long video - does he discuss proteins at any point?
  14. Standard memberKellyJay
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    16 Feb '19 21:17
    @stellspalfie said
    Its a long video - does he discuss proteins at any point?
    He covers a variety of topics and touches on them. A very high level over view is he is speaking on biology text books, touching on why people within biology and without it all share very similar views and how sometimes the textbooks avoid and stress things. It is a long video, it covers a book he wrote which I have.

    I am currently in my car waiting on my wife in a store so hopefully I get the name right so you can look at the reviews of those who like and dislike the book.

    Icons of evolution
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    @BigDoggProblem

    THANKS, ATHEISM!

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