Out of Body Experience?

Originally posted by souverein
If that is correct i wonder why we have developed in our minds this way How does it contribute the growth of our survival chances? How can out of body and near death experiences contribute to a better survival?

Since they are relatively rare, I doubt they have any noticeable effect on chances of survival - and practically zero effect on our evolution. A fairly large number of characteristics are side effects of other characteristics that do have an effect on survival. For example an OBE requires memory and the ability to imagine the world around you both of which are very useful characteristics for survival.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
The following is a good site to check out.

http://nhneneardeath.ning.com/

Where does it say/imply anything like
“the seeing and conversing with departed loved ones on the other side” is a “common element” of these experiences?

Originally posted by souverein
Yes I had and they are pretty amazing.
It might be a trick of our mind, although I do not understand why our minds would and could have developed such tricks.
The same for near dead experiences. As far I understand the evolution theory learns that mutations which are good for survival stay through growing procreation and changes that are not helpful u ...[text shortened]... rvival chances? How can out of body and near death experiences contribute to a better survival?

In the nature world awareness takes many forms, sometimes still inexplicable.
There is basic simple awareness evident in the most simplest life forms, of both plant and animal. Awareness is evident within the unified functioning of the various elements of any living cell. By awareness I obviously do not mean the mental processes that arise from developed brains and neurones either. Holistic sorts of awareness, in many persons opinion, is not only clearly related to survival, it is required for life to evolve.

If awareness is inherent in nature and is at base eternal and infinite, the very ground of existence itself (as some are convinced, including me), it is not a subsequence of physically evolved minds but rather what has enabled from the beginning such evolution.

What would happen sometimes, particularly at times of near death or crisis, I expect, would be a "breaking through" of some sort of our usual self-limiting perceptions and limiting physical perceptual functioning.

Increased connection with awareness is without doubt something that enables better survival.

If you wish to read the argued reasons for such "beliefs" about awareness by a scientist here is a link about the Primacy of Consciousness. (I prefer the term awareness to distinguish from the normal object-oriented reasoning consciousness we commonly think of with that term.)

http://www.peterrussell.com/SP/PrimConsc.php

Originally posted by Taoman
I was wondering if any have had an "out of body" expereince and would like to share it? I haven't.

I can go out of my body, in my mind.

Originally posted by Taoman
In the nature world awareness takes many forms, sometimes still inexplicable.
There is basic simple awareness evident in the most simplest life forms, of both plant and animal. Awareness is evident within the unified functioning of the various elements of any living cell. By awareness I obviously do not mean the mental processes that arise from developed br ...[text shortened]... usness we commonly think of with that term.)

http://www.peterrussell.com/SP/PrimConsc.php

Thanks for the article.

quote:
"Such a view, though widespread in many metaphysical systems, is completely foreign to the current scientific worldview. The world we see is so obviously material in nature; any suggestion that it might have more in common with mind is quickly rejected as having "no basis in reality". However, when we consider this alternative worldview more closely, it turns out that it is not in conflict with any of the findings of modern science—only with its presuppositions. Furthermore, it leads to a picture of the cosmos that is even more enchanted."

I like the delusion concept (from Kant to Vedanta to Buddhism)
Good to remember that the east talks about six senses and includes consciousness as the sixth.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
- or a result of a high dose of a dissociative drug.

a friend of mine says 'moreso, DMT (Dimethyl Tryptamine) is theorized to be released when we die, along with when we dream and for the first 20 days or so when we are born. A study was done on it's effects on humans in America by Dr. Rick Strassman, amongst other things he got volunteers (some of which included politicians) to take the chemical inter-muscularly & describe their experiences. The things they saw ranged from aliens to inter dimensional gateways to tiny grey gnomes who turn the cogs of our existence. It's a bit silly to say that all of these people experienced this thru their own imagination as some of you on this thread suggest, a more likely but 'impossible' explanation is that there are many more plains to this reality than we can see. Oh and an interesting fact - DMT comes from the pineal gland, which is also what the 'omm meditation alot of yogis do vibrates. I theorize that this releases DMT also, hense enlightenment. Cheers for reading 🙂'

Originally posted by karoly aczel
a friend of mine says 'moreso, DMT (Dimethyl Tryptamine) is theorized to be released when we die, along with when we dream and for the first 20 days or so when we are born. A study was done on it's effects on humans in America by Dr. Rick Strassman, amongst other things he got volunteers (some of which included politicians) to take the chemical inter-mu ...[text shortened]... ates. I theorize that this releases DMT also, hense enlightenment. Cheers for reading 🙂'

Thnx man.(He's in the bedroom now) Summed up my feelings but I thought he better let you guys know that that was not my comment. It was that of a 17 yr old male.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Since they are relatively rare, I doubt they have any noticeable effect on chances of survival - and practically zero effect on our evolution. A fairly large number of characteristics are side effects of other characteristics that do have an effect on survival. For example an OBE requires memory and the ability to imagine the world around you both of which are very useful characteristics for survival.

I do believe "time slips" , which includes things like OBE's, are occurring more and more frequently.
Again,I am referring to my own direct experience of what I see hapenning to people around me and a few articles I've read in some new age mags.


60-70 years ago, one might have one OBE, or one "trip" in their whole life. Maybe only experience some mild time-slipping during dreams. Now it seems that we can have these "trips daily". I cetainly do on some weeks.

Originally posted by Taoman
In the nature world awareness takes many forms, sometimes still inexplicable.
There is basic simple awareness evident in the most simplest life forms, of both plant and animal. Awareness is evident within the unified functioning of the various elements of any living cell. By awareness I obviously do not mean the mental processes that arise from developed br usness we commonly think of with that term.)

http://www.peterrussell.com/SP/PrimConsc.php

Yes it is more than mere survival. A whole new part of the brain (the part for spiritual evolution, using things like the pineal gland properly,etc.), is being used.
As we evolve spiritually, so does our language to reflect this change. One thing I forsee chaning in the future is the MELDING of the words "need" and "want".
In a free, open society with no profit , except for that which profits EVERYBODY , where all life forms are taken into consideration when making decisions , we will not "need" anything in the traditional sense when someone 'needs' food to live, or in a more contemporary sense where a junky may 'need' a hit.
I think in the future people wont need to abuse drugs in order to mask deeper unresovled issues. This great emotional (as well as spiritual) change will bring to the surface all the deep down misunderstandings and (false) fears and "clear the waters" so society can start afresh and we can lead (and follow) Mother Earth out of a class 3 planet (planet of sorrows) , to a class 4 planet (planet of hope. at least I think it was hope, oh well, something way better than "sorrows" anyway).

Have had a few, three I can remember distinctly.
In game messages or PMs for details- but the general sentiment is what Karoly posted essentially

Originally posted by karoly aczel
a friend of mine says 'moreso, DMT (Dimethyl Tryptamine) is theorized to be released when we die, along with when we dream and for the first 20 days or so when we are born. A study was done on it's effects on humans in America by Dr. Rick Strassman, amongst other things he got volunteers (some of which included politicians) to take the chemical inter-mu ...[text shortened]... ates. I theorize that this releases DMT also, hense enlightenment. Cheers for reading 🙂'

The pineal gland is situated behind forehead portion of the skull,above and between the eyebrows. Sitting comfortably(not necessarily cross legged),concentrating on this spot visually (after closing the eyes) and chanting the mantra given by your "guru"--it may be OM-- in a place isolated from disturbance and in the early hours--say bet.4am to 5am-- and holding the mind on OM is the recommended practice of Yog(not Yoga as wrongly spelt) called Dhyan and Dharana which eventually leads to Self Realisation.

Originally posted by Taoman
In the nature world awareness takes many forms, sometimes still inexplicable.
There is basic simple awareness evident in the most simplest life forms, of both plant and animal. Awareness is evident within the unified functioning of the various elements of any living cell. By awareness I obviously do not mean the mental processes that arise from developed br ...[text shortened]... usness we commonly think of with that term.)

http://www.peterrussell.com/SP/PrimConsc.php

Would you say "awareness" is synonymous with "Atma or Atman (as correctly written in Sanskrit)" ? And would you say that at Death the Atma or Atman merges with the Universal Atma or Paramatma as it is called ?

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
The pineal gland is situated behind forehead portion of the skull,above and between the eyebrows. Sitting comfortably(not necessarily cross legged),concentrating on this spot visually (after closing the eyes) and chanting the mantra given by your "guru"--it may be OM-- in a place isolated from disturbance and in the early hours--say bet.4am to 5am-- and h ...[text shortened]... ot Yoga as wrongly spelt) called Dhyan and Dharana which eventually leads to Self Realisation.

😏

edit: thats my friends response. He's essentially agreeing without much to add right now. Real respectful for a young guy. Rare these days...

Originally posted by karoly aczel
😏

edit: thats my friends response. He's essentially agreeing without much to add right now. Real respectful for a young guy. Rare these days...

Incidentally, in Hindu Yogic and theological traditions the Lord Shiva has a third eye located on the forehead between and above the eyebrows. The eye is shown closed in many old paintings etc. It is stated in the age old Purana s( a set of 18 books- essentially a compilation of Mythology) that when Shiva will open his third eye the Universe will come to an end.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
Would you say "awareness" is synonymous with "Atma or Atman (as correctly written in Sanskrit)" ? And would you say that at Death the Atma or Atman merges with the Universal Atma or Paramatma as it is called ?

It could possibly be one of the closest Sanskrit terms, as well as "Brahman/Pramatman", but my understanding of this "great Awareness" does not have a "self" . I believe any "self" (a common understanding of 'atma'😉 arises as a wave arises from the ocean and returns there too. Any sense of "I" or "soul" arises within Awareness.

Where does the wave finish and the ocean begin?

To me one cannot say this Awareness is impersonal, nor personal, nor any distinction at all, for it is the eternal Ground of All Phenomena and any distinctions arise because of it and without it no distinctions or differentiations can arise.

Nevertheless a sense of "self" is the very first arising from the Ocean of Awareness.

My understanding of death is briefly:

Our core awareness does not die , nor is it "born" with us. We are as individuals physically gestated and born "into it". We become individuals and live our lives, with this "Presence" always there not only in us, but in all about us.
There is no judgement and nothing to do to attain this 'greater awareness' as it already is operating in all we do. Whether we know it or not, is not as important as we seek to make out, but is a delightful "completing of the picture" when it reveals "itself" to us.

Compassion and cruelty arise within it. Yet it is neither compassion nor cruelty, yet that which enables us to enjoy or endure, to ignore or learn, from these things in our lives. Without such all the living drama as we know it would not be.

It is like the Sun, it shines on the good and evil, the unknowing and the wise alike. And in that sense it is all Accepting, which could be seen as Ultimate Compassion and Unifying Perfection and Completion.

In our conditioned "for and against" minds, it is almost anathema to think like this.

Anyway, back to death.

Our awareness is part of that Awareness, it is that Awareness. Our body dies, our unique, never to be repeated episodes of life end. I believe what our awareness journey has endured or enjoyed remains, is not lost but "goes back into the Great Awareness" and later lives that are born (not "us" as previous unique individuals)
develop "resonances" that continue a type of "thread" within Awareness and similarities and connections can re-emerge either in part or strongly, which is why "memories" of previous existences arise for some. This where ideas of re-incarnation" have arisen.

Who knows what other "resonances and connections" occur within the Great Awareness ?

We die - finish, end, a unique individual life and associated temporarily created "self" - it is no more.
In my understanding it is NEVER to be repeated exactly the same in all the Universe or all eternity. THAT is how unique each of our lives now are!

But the awareness part of us, well, that never dies because it is That Awareness and our life has "left its mark" (somehow?) to re-emerge in part or stronger again.

This is my current understanding of death. And the Awareness that is the All Good and Complete One.

Cheers rvsakhadeo.