Originally posted by robbie carrobieInteresting how you talk of these beliefs as if they are entirely in the past. There are plenty of superstitious people on the earth and always have been. As for what might be termed 'folk beliefs' or 'folk religions' they too are still common throughout the world (though possibly more so in Asia and Africa.)
pagansim comes from Latin paganus and refers to those who used to live in villages and worship a host of 'nature' gods and attributed all sorts of practices and superstitions to these.
Originally posted by twhiteheadoh, no that was not my intention, merely a reference to etymology of the word as having been derived from the past as the noble and learned beetle has pointed out.
Interesting how you talk of these beliefs as if they are entirely in the past. There are plenty of superstitious people on the earth and always have been. As for what might be termed 'folk beliefs' or 'folk religions' they too are still common throughout the world (though possibly more so in Asia and Africa.)
Originally posted by karoly aczelno i put comas round 'nature', it being merely a very blanket kind of statement. For example the Celts threw precious objects into pools and rivers that they held to be sacred, an offering to the deity of the place, a practice echoed in wishing wells. Thus to appeal to the Gods of nature, is an appeal to mere natural elements. It seems to me that the ancients everywhere also had this practice, the God of Volcanoes Hephaestus or Vulcan, the God of the sea, Poseidon or Neptune, the God of thunder, Thor or Jupiter etc etc, thus it seems to me that the ancients fashioned their Gods from the natural world. Christianity to me is a facade, a semblance of the reality, a deviation from what was intended, a hybrid of pagan elements and biblical elements. I dont think that this can be denied.
So there is no superstition in christianity? Remember you put inverted commas around superstition when you wrote that.
Originally posted by black beetlethis is the legacy of paganism dear beetle, indeed it has survived in one form or another in 'nominal Christianity', indeed, one thinks of the pagan origin of church spires, wedding rings, holy water, the symbol of the cross, priests garb etc etc etc.
I do not know if Christianity is “superior” as rabbie pointed out earlier; but I know that the Christian temples were built on Pagan holy grounds and that the Christians kept the Pagans on the run mainly by means of accusing them for “witchcraft”. Even the famous philosopher and mathematician Hypatia was cut in pieces by Nitrian monks because she was ri ...[text shortened]...
Anyway, to me religions and ungodliness are both products of the human mind -nothing holy
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieLets not forget easter eggs and easter bunnies, since its that time of year.
this is the legacy of paganism dear beetle, indeed it has survived in one form or another in 'nominal Christianity', indeed, one thinks of the pagan origin of church spires, wedding rings, holy water, the symbol of the cross, priests garb etc etc etc.
I am curious though. Which pagan belief was the symbol of the cross taken from and when?
Originally posted by twhiteheadit depends on which cross you are referring to, there are many, even within 'Christianity', itself.
Lets not forget easter eggs and easter bunnies, since its that time of year.
I am curious though. Which pagan belief was the symbol of the cross taken from and when?
Originally posted by twhiteheadthe cross is a christian symbol. jesus had to be killed on it to become a symbol. before that it was two pieces of wood you crucified people on.
Lets not forget easter eggs and easter bunnies, since its that time of year.
I am curious though. Which pagan belief was the symbol of the cross taken from and when?
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Originally posted by twhiteheadhere are different versions of so called 'Christian', crosses
Lets not forget easter eggs and easter bunnies, since its that time of year.
I am curious though. Which pagan belief was the symbol of the cross taken from and when?
http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/symbols/cross.htm
As for its connection to paganism, please consider this, Alexander Hislop, author of a famous book, the Two Babylons. I do not ascribe to his interpretation of scripture in many instances and the reader is cautioned to use discernment, but his research is rather excellent and quite interesting in itself.
http://www.piney.com/His56.html
Originally posted by black beetleI do not know if Christianity is “superior” as rabbie pointed out earlier; but I know that the Christian temples were built on Pagan holy grounds and that the Christians kept the Pagans on the run mainly by means of accusing them for “witchcraft”. Even the famous philosopher and mathematician Hypatia was cut in pieces by Nitrian monks because she was ridiculously accused as a witch by that morbid joker, Cyril, who later was declared a saint by the Orthodox Christian Church! The Inquisition and the Puritans amongst else had also their share…
I do not know if Christianity is “superior” as rabbie pointed out earlier; but I know that the Christian temples were built on Pagan holy grounds and that the Christians kept the Pagans on the run mainly by means of accusing them for “witchcraft”. Even the famous philosopher and mathematician Hypatia was cut in pieces by Nitrian monks because she was ri ...[text shortened]...
Anyway, to me religions and ungodliness are both products of the human mind -nothing holy
😵
This certainly is a popular conception of Hyptia. However, none of the primary sources justify this view. It is certain that Hypatia was murdered by a Christian mob; it is, though, highly questionable that they were Nitrian monks and that St Cyril ordered the attack (Cyril is regarded by the Catholic Church not only as a saint but as a doctor of the Church.) Earliest Christian records of her, such as from Socrates Scholasticus, actually present a favourable view of her and there is no suggestion that Cyril was responsible for her death. It is likely a myth sprung up from the anti-clerical historiography of the likes of Edward Gibbon during the Enlightenment.
Originally posted by ZahlanziNo my friend;
the cross is a christian symbol. jesus had to be killed on it to become a symbol. before that it was two pieces of wood you crucified people on.
All the primitive Egyptian sepulchers were a chamber that had the form of a cross. The cross was the symbol of the unification of the human races and it was laid on the breast of the deceased Egyptians; the same tactic was followed by the Buddhist adepts with the swastika, which is also a specific cross and, as you remember and pointed out in the past at another thread by lost apache, it was used extensively by the Native Americans for specific purposes (regarding the swastika and its historicity around the dial it’s good to start digging with http://www.crystalinks.com/swastika.html).
Other famous crosses are the Ankh and the tat-cross. Ankh as found in the hands of Baal and of Astarte whilst as an attribute of Isis is the symbol of the mundane circle, but when it was placed on the chest of a mummy it was the symbol of immortality. The Ankh without the handle (T-shaped cross) is the symbol of the androgyne, whilst a +-shaped cross was considered by the Egyptians a phallic symbol.
The Ankh became due time the cross of St. Anthony and the cross of St. Philip. The Labarum cross of Constantine was an Etruscan symbol and also the cross of Osiris. The symbol of Horus was the Latin cross, whilst the pectoral cross that was used by the Greeks had Egyptian origin
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieWe agree. Even the word “Christ” derives from the Greek “Chrestos” that was used in the 5th century BC by Herodotus and even by Aeschylus (manteumata pythochresta = oracles delivered by a Pythian god… …through a pythoness, see Choeph.901). “Chrestian” is “the seat of an oracle”, and also an offering to/ for the oracle. “Chrestes” is a prophet and soothsayer, and “Chresterios” one who serves an oracle or a god. The terms “Christ” and “Christians” are originally spelt “Chrest” and “Chrestians”, and for the Pagans “Chrestos” was a disciple on probation. When a Chrestos had attained to this through initiation, long trials and suffering, he was “rubbed with oil” and his name was changed into “Christos”, the “purified”. “Christos” was also considered “the Way”, the Path that turns individuality into immortal ego. Paul knew this tradition quite well (Gal. iv.19) and claimed that every good individual may find Christ in his “inner man” (Ephes. iii. 16,17).
this is the legacy of paganism dear beetle, indeed it has survived in one form or another in 'nominal Christianity', indeed, one thinks of the pagan origin of church spires, wedding rings, holy water, the symbol of the cross, priests garb etc etc etc.
In addition the word “Chrestos” was a synonym of Soter/ Saviour (Chrestos Soter, which turned into Joshua/ Jesus Christ (“Joshua” = “a free man in the name of the Lord”, “Christ” = Saviour)
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Originally posted by black beetleyes beetle i must agree with you on this point as well, for although i know not of the ancient usage among pagans, it is certainly true in a biblical context that Christ, (Kristos) refers to the Hebrew equivalent (Mashiach, anointed one) which we translate as Messiah. We know this from its usage in the Septuagint where it occurs more than forty times.
We agree. Even the word “Christ” derives from the Greek “Chrestos” that was used in the 5th century BC by Herodotus and even by Aeschylus (manteumata pythochresta = oracles delivered by a Pythian god… …through a pythoness, see Choeph.901). “Chrestian” is “the seat of an oracle”, and also an offering to/ for the oracle. “Chrestes” is a prophet and sooths ...[text shortened]... o Joshua/ Jesus Christ (“Joshua” = “a free man in the name of the Lord”, “Christ” = Saviour)
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