path to truth

Originally posted by @black-beetle
So, is it the case we do agree that indeed nobody's Reality is Objectively True and Real?

PS: No Kellyjay, I have not read that book.
😵

It is a book of fiction about rabbits i rank it up there with the Lord of Rings as far as enjoying the read.

Originally posted by @black-beetle
So, is it the case we do agree that indeed nobody's Reality is Objectively True and Real?

PS: No Kellyjay, I have not read that book.
😵

I think we can get glimpses of truth and reality, but we do need eyes that can see. I do believe that judgment day will have reality revealed and we will see our part in it. I don’t think it will be a pretty sight to behold. Especially when we realize what could have been.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
I think we can get glimpses of truth and reality, but we do need eyes that can see. I do believe that judgment day will have reality revealed and we will see our part in it. I don’t think it will be a pretty sight to behold. Especially when we realize what could have been.

I understand what you say, but your reply is not an answer to my questions. My questions are the following:

Whose Reality is Objectively True and Real?
The Reality seen by the eye of the Man, or the Reality seen by the eye of the Dog?
The Reality that is perceived and deciphered by the mind of the Man, or the Reality that is perceived and deciphered by the mind of the Dog?

If you do not want to offer your answers, it's OK.
😵

Originally posted by @black-beetle
I understand what you say, but your reply is not an answer to my questions. My questions are the following:

Whose Reality is Objectively True and Real?
The Reality seen by the eye of the Man, or the Reality seen by the eye of the Dog?
The Reality that is perceived and deciphered by the mind of the Man, or the Reality that is perceived and deciphered by the mind of the Dog?

If you do not want to offer your answers, it's OK.
😵

I answered none of the above we are in a fallen world.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
I answered none of the above we are in a fallen world.

I have the feeling you answered all of them questions, but you do not see it;

Earlier, you said amongst else that “Perspectives of plants, dogs, birds, and people are just another word for looking at the universe through different lens, forming different opinions”, and I argue that this is exactly the case –but you do not want to acknowledge the consequences.

What exact “lens” is the one the sentient beings use, other than their own mind? What exact lens do we human beings use? Where exactly faith really exists, if it is not a part of our mental activity? And how exactly and by what means is faith a reliable path towards the truth?

This specific “lens”, the mind, is the sole tool that enables the projection of countless different perspectives of Reality. The sentient beings use strictly their specific and unique bodymind in order to live. They have no faith, they have knowledge; the lion knows exactly where her game is located, and when the antilope gets to know that the lion has her under fierce attack she knows she has to run for her sweet life, and she is doing exactly this. No faith in there, just pure knowledge.

Their respectful mind is the sole means by which the sentient beings perceive and decipher reality. This is the reason why each reality is purely subjective –it is grounded strictly on subjective experience, which in turn is grounded strictly on the mind;
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Originally posted by @kellyjay
I answered none of the above we are in a fallen world.

I genuinely feel it is a shame that Christians have this back to front.

We are not a in a world that has fallen, but a world that has risen up.

Originally posted by @black-beetle
I have the feeling you answered all of them questions, but you do not see it;

Earlier, you said amongst else that “Perspectives of plants, dogs, birds, and people are just another word for looking at the universe through different lens, forming different opinions”, and I argue that this is exactly the case –but you do not want to acknowledge the con ...[text shortened]... grounded strictly on subjective experience, which in turn is grounded strictly on the mind;
😵

You can see the world around you yet that doesn’t mean you understand it or fathom all there is about it. My perception of the universe around me may give me enough to create a world view that I use to understand, or at least give me a working knowledge it doesn’t mean I’m remotely truly understanding it all. The whole universe for me is how I filter it between my ears, and my thinking can be stinking!

Who can grasp it truly but one who knows the truth?

Originally posted by @kellyjay
...
Who can grasp it truly but one who knows the truth?

So, no one.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
There’s reality and opinion about the way things are, ...

And then you give your opinion. That is all anyone can do, other than using logic reason and facts.

You are ambivalent about using logic reason and facts, kelly.

Originally posted by @apathist
And then you give your opinion. That is all anyone can do, other than using logic reason and facts.

You are ambivalent about using logic reason and facts, kelly.

My opinion on any topic is an opinion nothing more. It is a rare thing for me to use the word fact, because facts will never change with new data they only get validated. I do give you logic and reason for the things I say, if I say something isn’t a factual statement I back it with why.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
My opinion on any topic is an opinion nothing more. It is a rare thing for me to use the word fact, because facts will never change with new data they only get validated. I do give you logic and reason for the things I say, if I say something isn’t a factual statement I back it with why.

I understand you care about being an honest thinker.

I'm trying to connect your loose usage of the word 'truth' with your treatment here of the word 'fact'. Am not having luck though.

Originally posted by @apathist
I understand you care about being an honest thinker.

I'm trying to connect your loose usage of the word 'truth' with your treatment here of the word 'fact'. Am not having luck though.

What is a fact?

Originally posted by @kellyjay
What is a fact?

A bit of demonstrable knowledge. What sayeth you?

Originally posted by @apathist
A bit of demonstrable knowledge. What sayeth you?

To vague of a definition for my liking. As I pointed out to you earlier facts don’t change, opinions, hypothesis, even theories can change given solid contradictory new information.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
You can see the world around you yet that doesn’t mean you understand it or fathom all there is about it. My perception of the universe around me may give me enough to create a world view that I use to understand, or at least give me a working knowledge it doesn’t mean I’m remotely truly understanding it all. The whole universe for me is how I filter it be ...[text shortened]... my ears, and my thinking can be stinking!

Who can grasp it truly but one who knows the truth?

Edit: "You can see the world around you yet that doesn’t mean you understand it or fathom all there is about it."

Yes. This ain't mean whatever we do not understand we should try to explain it by means of blind beliefs. We can simply keep in mind we do not know yet, and keep up trying to get to know in the future, if possible. There is nothing wrong in acknowledging that we do not know herenow, if this is really the case. No dragons are required.


Edit: "My perception of the universe around me may give me enough to create a world view that I use to understand, or at least give me a working knowledge it doesn’t mean I’m remotely truly understanding it all."

Sure thing; this is the reason why I told you during an other conversation of ours that I do not trust my mind and that I keep on re-evaluating everything.


Edit: "The whole universe for me is how I filter it between my ears, and my thinking can be stinking!"

Yes, and this is how I see it too. This is the reason why the strictly mind-depended reality you (and every other sentient being) perceive is just one amongst countless other realities and, of course, purely subjective. There are as many realities as the sentient beings that perceive them.


Edit: "Who can grasp it truly but one who knows the truth?"

Truth cannot be found in separation from one's mind. One's truth is simply one's truth. There are as many truths as many are the realities from which these truths emerge, and they are all strictly mind-depended and really true to the respectful sentient beings whose minds perceive them😵