08 Jun 12
Originally posted by galveston75My ironic question was in response to you saying the following about what you have concluded from "the videos that have become so popular of 'bullying' that are being posted":
Lol. Come on. If I have to explain this to you just let me know.
galveston75: "I think if one looks at the videos that have become so popular of "bullying" that are being posted by the kids that seem to gang up and seemingly enjoy watching and then posting these attacks is something horrible and as a kid of the 60's and 70's nothing like this on the scale it is now ever existed."
So I ask again, what videos about bullying were "being posted by the kids" back in the 60s and 70s?
08 Jun 12
Originally posted by FMF+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
My ironic question was in response to you saying the following about what you have concluded from "the videos that have become so popular of 'bullying' that are being posted":
galveston75: "I think if one looks at the videos that have become so popular of "bullying" that are being posted by the kids that seem to gang up and seemingly enjoy watching and then p ...[text shortened]... what videos about bullying were "being posted by the kids" back in the 60s and 70s?
08 Jun 12
Originally posted by galveston75Your comparison of now with how it was "back in the 60s and 70s" based on the "scale" of videos getting "posted" on the net is like a parody of anecdotal evidence and a parody of basing conclusions on it.
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08 Jun 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSo are you willing to state that 30% of what ever media was in use at any given time in history was not dedicated to pornography and/or eroticism. Surely it is for those making the case for a decline in moral values and social order to prove their case.
I see, are you willing to state that thirty percent of the information the Romans
produced and read was dedicated to pornographic literature, for if i am not mistaken,
sonhouse posted a link detailing that 30 percent of internet traffic is from pornographic
sites and servers. I think we can safely conclude that never before has pornographic
literature been more readily accessible and apparently acceptable as ever before.
08 Jun 12
2 edits
Originally posted by galveston75I asked the Headmasters of some of the schools I visited about what prompted the campaigns. The answers led me to believe that it was not the case that bullying was a bigger problem than in the past. What was different was society's intolerance to bullying and parents' desire to know that the school they were sending their kids to would take this issue seriously and not, like mine, make no effort to address it. I would see this as evidence of an improvement in moral values.
But why are these "structured campaigns" now in affect? Has the problem become worse or is it still at the same level it's always been?
I think if one looks at the videos that have become so popular of "bullying" that are being posted by the kids that seem to gang up and seemingly enjoy watching and then posting these attacks is something horrible and f the amont and the acceptance that seems to be earth wide of things like these attacks.
The private school I went to did not, by any means, have the worst type of problems with bullying. However, had Youtube and digital cameras been around, I could have quickly put together a montage that would have made you wince. My wife, who went to a Northern comprehensive, says she could have put together a montage that would make you cry. But these events are now confined to historical anecdotes, not staring you in the face over the internet and capable of being repeated over and over again.
Of course, this does not mean that bullying is not worse now than in the past, but I just don't think there is any credible means of saying whether it is or not. What we can make some assessment of is how we as a society try and address it, which is perhaps the more accurate measure of our moral values, and in this the improvement has been immeasurable compared to just a few decades ago.
08 Jun 12
Originally posted by Proper Knobi have not said that it has not existed, my point is that never before in the history of
I can guarantee you that if the Romans had the technology we have today they would be making pornographic films and watching films online just as we do. The fact is that pornography, in some form of another, has existed for thousands of years in our culture.
humanity has it been more prevalent or accepted.
08 Jun 12
1 edit
Originally posted by kevcvs57Thats exactly what i am saying, at present i am reading the letters of the younger Pliny
So are you willing to state that 30% of what ever media was in use at any given time in history was not dedicated to pornography and/or eroticism. Surely it is for those making the case for a decline in moral values and social order to prove their case.
and he speaks of virtue in one form or other all the time, despite the fact that he's an
aristocratic superstitious pagan Christian killer and to top it all off a lawyer to boot!
08 Jun 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieNever before has it been as prevalent i'll concede that point, but that's only because the power of the internet can fire it direct to someone's computer wherever they maybe. As i sit here right now, a couple of mouse clicks and i can watch whatever i desire.
i have not said that it has not existed, my point is that never before in the history of
humanity has it been more prevalent or accepted.
As for more accepted? I'm not sure about that one, the concept of of pornography was a Victorian invention. What we term pornographic the Romans and Greeks for instance would just term as scenes from normal day to day life.
Anyway, we digress. Back to the topic at hand, which i'm not sure what it is?!
😲
08 Jun 12
2 edits
Originally posted by Proper Knobactually the prevalence of prostitution among the Victorians was horrendous, poor
Never before has it been as prevalent i'll concede that point, but that's only because the power of the internet can fire it direct to someone's computer wherever they maybe. As i sit here right now, a couple of mouse clicks and i can watch whatever i desire.
As for more accepted? I'm not sure about that one, the concept of of pornography was a Victor ...[text shortened]...
Anyway, we digress. Back to the topic at hand, which i'm not sure what it is?!
😲
women had basically to prostitute themselves for nothing more than the price of a glass
of Gin in order to procure money for their lodgings. Sometimes reality is more horrific
than fiction. So we can conclude that because of technology pornography is more
prevalent than ever before and more accessible. Here is a question for you PK, how
dangerous or otherwise do you think it is? Do you think it could be addictive? I was
listening to a program on BBC Radio 4 while driving and a women was stating that it
has actually benefited women, yet I failed to see why and her arguments seemed to
me to be rather weak.
08 Jun 12
1 edit
Originally posted by Rank outsiderI watched a sixties movie, If (1968) which detailed indirectly forms of corporal
I asked the Headmasters of some of the schools I visited about what prompted the campaigns. The answers led me to believe that it was not the case that bullying was a bigger problem than in the past. What was different was society's intolerance to bullying and parents' desire to know that the school they were sending their kids to would take this iss values, and in this the improvement has been immeasurable compared to just a few decades ago.
punishment in some private schools. There was an instance where one could be given
ten 'whacks ', with a cane on the buttocks, by a peer who could take a long run up
while delivering the 'whacks', and the recipient of the punishment was expected to
shake the hand of the one delivering the punishment afterwards. 😲
08 Jun 12
One other point. The reference to Youtube also reminds me of a talk I heard Alistair Campbell give, on the influence of the media on the perception of social issues, as opposed to the reality. Even allowing for his potential bias, I think he had a point.
For example, he cited one of the regular assessments of crime that are done in the UK. One report showed the biggest overall drop in the rate of crime, and in particular violent crime, even seen. Almost at the same time, another report showed that people felt less safe walking the streets for fear of being attacked than ever since the report was first commissioned.
Ditto the NHS. Asked 'Do you think the NHS is getting better or worse?' there was a strong core of respondents who said 'Worse'.
However, the survey then looked at the respondents who had said 'worse' and who had actually used the NHS, and how they had rated the treatment they had actually received. Ironically, they rated the service pretty highly and indeed there was a trend upwards.
In both cases, Campbell argued that this disconnect stemmed from the media's almost insatiable desire to print bad news stories. People see this as the 'truth', even if their own personal experiences contradict this and draw false conclusions as to whether things are improving or not.
I just think it is dangerous to extrapolate from selected examples of bad things to making claims about whether society, as a whole, is moving in a better or worse direction. And too easy to see everything in negative terms.
“And thou shalt rejoice in every good thing which the LORD thy God hath given unto thee, and unto thine house, thou, and the Levite, and the stranger that is among you.”
(See, I am reading it 😉)
08 Jun 12
2 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThey tried to film 'If' at my school, and offered a lot of money. The Board of Governors wisely rejected the offer.
I watched a sixties movie, If (1968) which detailed indirectly forms of corporal
punishment in some private schools. There was an instance where one could be given
ten 'whacks ', with a cane on the buttocks, by a peer who could take a long run up
while delivering the 'whacks', and the recipient of the punishment was expected to
shake the hand of the one delivering the punishment afterwards. 😲
But you make my point nicely. Was allowing older boys to administer corporal punishment to their 'fags' morally acceptable or not? Was the concept of 'fagging' morally acceptable? Many argued at the time that this was a necessary part of creating a sense of discipline.
We should rejoice that we have put these things behind us.
08 Jun 12
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThese scare stories, real or imagined, have been generated in most historical settings since written cultural and social accounts were kept, usually for political reasons.
Thats exactly what i am saying, at present i am reading the letters of the younger Pliny
and he speaks of virtue in one form or other all the time, despite the fact that he's an
aristocratic superstitious pagan Christian killer and to top it all off a lawyer to boot!
I can only go by my own experience and I do not believe that young people are any worse in terms of their moral standards or propensity for violence than they were in my youth, arguably less so.
Do you remember the Glasgow's razor gangs Robbie?