Paul's value?

Then ToO turns to the parable of the seed among the four types of soil in Matthew 13:1-23.

"And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful."

That is being immature, underdeveloped, unfruitful though a believer who has received the word of the kingdom.

Of the four kinds of soil the only one that I think signifies one who rejects the Lord is the one hardened by the way side.

"And He spoke many things to them in parables, saying, Behold, the sower went out to sow.

And he sowed, some seeds fell beside the way, and the birds came and devoured them." (vs. 3,4)

And the words of explanation from Jesus Himself -

"You therefore hear the parable of the one who sowed. When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand, the evil one comes and snatches away that which has been sown in his heart.

This is the one sown beside the way." (v.18,19)

This is a man who loses the word of the kingdom altogether to demonic activity working to deprive him of salvation.

The other three soil types are about the unfruitfulness or fruitfulness of what is sown rather than the LOSS of what is sown. Ie. the seed on rocky soil, the seed among the thorns, the seed sown on cultivated land.

The places on which the seed falls represent different conditions of the human heart. The final fourth one is the heart that is DEALT with, as tilled soil - rocks removed, thorns cleared rendering the seed of God's kingdom word fruitful to different degrees.

The fourth soil is not a soil that did not have problems. Rather it is a soil (heart) that was cultivated to be FREE from frustrations. It is the heart of the hearer that is dealt with that the kingdom word might grow in it and be fruitful.

Following is an explanation of what happens to the "unfruitful":
John 15
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

If I jumped from one gospel to another to interpret words ThinkOfOne would howl about reading comprehension. It is ok for him to jump over the John though to explain something in Matthew.
True that the unfuitful branch that did not abide in the vine, He says, is gathered and burned. However, there is so much assurance of eternal salvation in John it is hard to imagine suddenly in the middle Christ contradicts all those words.

I would place this ALSO in the category believers who suffer loss yet are themselves saved yet so as through fire.

"If anyone's work is consumed, he will SUFFER LOSS, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:15)

The scope of "suffer loss" is general. It could include a WIDE variety of disciplines that Christ could administer as He sees appropriate. It is hard to restrict "suffer loss" to only one specific punishment. The Righteous Judge has great latitude assign what is appropriate to whatever level of deficiency that requires discipline.

ToO goes on:

Not only that, but you've also failed to take into account the bottom line in the verses YOU cited:
"He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers."

This is concerning the man who is saved yet not watching. The coming of his Master Christ comes as a surprise upon his bad behavior.

The Lord will let some of His saved people TASTE what it is like to be dealt with as an unbeliever in some instances. Thus being cut assunder and placed with the hypocrits is to be cast into the outer darkness during the glorious reign of Jesus in the millennium

If is highly doubtful that ToO believes the resurrected and exalted Christ will reign on the earth in the future. ToO's borrowing of this passage, you have to remember, is in support of a dead Jesus who is not God incarnated and who just "walked the Earth" along time ago.

I have never heard a single word from ToO on the second coming of Christ upon the world, His servants, or unbelievers in any regard.

That's enough for me to make my points. I don't need to cover Matthew 25:29 or Luke 19:26 in this post.

Understand that to ThinkOfOne the overwhelming portion of the New Testament is a untrue MYTH, a legend spun by unfaithful apostles. Only selectively will he refer to some passages for his arguments to object to some more evangelical understandings in favor of his modernized de-mythologized Christ.

@philokalia said
Right, all of that can be true -- that the path to destruction is wide -- and that there are many who still are saved.

What, are you suggesting that only the Christians who have deeply internalized the Gospel and exercise it in their daily life, who live very devoutly, will go to heaven, and those that have been lagging behind are doomed to hell?

I am just curious.. ...[text shortened]... ians do you figure are actually going to go to hell because they are not meeting this very high bar?

What, are you suggesting that only the Christians who have deeply internalized the Gospel and exercise it in their daily life, who live very devoutly, will go to heaven, and those that have been lagging behind are doomed to hell?

I am just curious... What percent of self-identified Christians do you figure are actually going to go to hell because they are not meeting this very high bar?

Before we move on to another topic, how do the assertions made by you - such as the following - NOT fly in the face of the words of Jesus that I cited?

There's a whole category of the ignorant (or incapable) that are held to a lesser standard...Some people are very good at implementing the word of God because they have been given many gifts...Other people aren't as good, and are easily distracted or dull or just don't have the fortitude, and they cannot achieve what others do, but they can still be saved by grace...We are saved by grace -- grace that makes up for all of our shortcomings in regard to not practicing the word to a high level.

So we just have to leave some people stuck where they are and go on. ToO doesn't believe any true disciples are named in the New Testament.

Paul was one true disciple. And I will try to dive into some of his pioneering wisdom.

First we have to receive Christ. Then we have to realize as Colossians says that all of the riches of wisdom and knowledge are in hidden in Christ.

"[Christ] In whom are all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden.

This I say that no one may delude you with persuasive speech." (Col. 2:3,4)

The value of Paul's ministry. I have spent the last hour meditating on the incalculable WEALTH of just a few sentences on the subjective experience of Jesus Christ.

The next sentence is worth trillions -

"What then shall we say? Should we continue in sin that grace may abound! (Rom. 6:1)

Well Christians, shall we ??

Should WE, who believed in the Son of God, "continue in sin that grace may abound?"

We have to reason it out. We have to get into the spirit of prayer and use out sanctified logic along with this pioneering Christian brother.

Should we continue in sin that grace may abound? ABSOLUTELY NOT! We who have died to sin how shall we still live in it? (Rom. 6:2)

It is a matter of waking UP.
It is a matter of REALIZATION.
It is a matter of SEEING the truth in your spirit and in your heart wide open to God's word.

I contemplated the next sentence for a long time tonight - soaking in all the trillions of riches of this sentence. What sentence? Verse 3

"Or are you ignorant that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?"

"Are you ignorant?" the Apostle Paul asks. Well ... are we ?

Are YOU IGNORANT?
Are YOU IGNORANT?

Is there some ignorance in us O Christians ? Maybe there is some IGNORANCE, some shortage of sight, some failure to grasp the good news.

"Or are you ignorant that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

We have been buried therefore with Him through baptism int His death. In order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so also we might walk in newness of life." (vs.3,4)

Are you ignorant?
Am I ignorant?

ARE YOU IGNORANT?? Are we who have said "Lord Jesus, I receive YOU into my heart" ignorant as to what has happened to us?

Are you ignorant who have been baptized - plunged into - immersed into Christ. Don't BE ignorant. Receive Jesus. Get baptized right away by others having received Jesus before you. And REALIZE and don't be ignorant -

" ... all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized [miraculously, supernaturally] into His death."

Paul's value is in taking AWAY if he can our ignorance as young believers.

You have to exercise your praying spirit of faith. You have to open your whole being to God.

"We who have died to sin, how shall we still live in it?

Or ... are you ignorant that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

His death has the killing power to terminate all the negative things in us from the fall when we turn to our regenerated spirit. When we touch the Lord Jesus within - His death into which we have been immersed works for us spontaneously.

"We have been buried therefore with Him through baptism into His death, in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so also we might walk in newness of life." (v.4)

In other words Christ is our own history.
We have to learn to apply Him within us as our own history.
We died and were raised WITH HIM !

This is worth more than a trillion dollars.