Personal Relationship with Jesus Christ

Originally posted by Rajk999
Its a sham really. It annoys me.

I dont mind so much, i realise that everyone is at a different stage of spiritual
development and thus no one is the finished article, but to miss the point entirely, its
just like sooo weird.

Originally posted by Rajk999
What is BEMA?

I guess the details in Matt 25 about judgment and separation into sheep and goats dont apply to believers.

Go to Shoettle Publishing. Find it on the Internet. Spend a very small amount of money (about 12 to 18 bucks I think) and buy a book called "The Judgment Seat of Christ" by one Robert Govett.

You will learn all about the Bema Seat and the Judgment Seat of Christ for Christians. I suggest buying the book only so that it becomes your own posession. If you object to this and you really want the book, send me a private message with your address and I'll send one to you free of charge.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
there are many valid reasons why Christ died, to propitiate for sins, to provide a
corresponding ransom for that which was lost by Adam, to enable those who put
faith in the value of that sacrifice to be declared righteous on its basis, to establish a
new covenant for a kingdom, tell me when you would like me to stop?

No the difference bet ...[text shortened]... ot quite there yet,

(1 Corinthians 13:7) . . .It bears all things, believes all things,. . .

Ramson paid for what, it was said that we have earn our way to God so why
pay for a something that has be worked for? Seriously, that is would like me
being given a BRAN NEW CAR except I have to pay the loan so it really isn't free.

So what propitiate for sins is in play here if we have to work for it? Again I
believe in works I believe in a judgment for our works too, but for our
salvation if it isn't a free gift from God what is it? Here you must earn your
way into heaven, then Jesus will die for you, so you can earn your way into
heaven....really? How many good works is enough to make God like me?

The fact you have to add to Jesus' death by saying it wasn't enough for your
salvation shows how little you think of what He did for you. The way for you
to come to God has been completed by Jesus Christ, when He said it was
finished it was, the vale was rent we can come to God right now because of
what Jesus did, not because of what you do! You cannot earn God's grace it is
a gift to us, to say you have to pay for it turns it into something else.

I don't know what motivates you, don't even care to know! I don't know who
is going to be in right standing with God on judgment day, I do know that those
that are, will not because they became good enough through works, but
through what Jesus did. Their works will be judged their motives I'm sure will
be on full display so that for me isn't even something I spend my time worrying
about, eveything will be brought out into the light.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Ramson paid for what, it was said that we have earn our way to God so why
pay for a something that has be worked for? Seriously, that is would like me
being given a BRAN NEW CAR except I have to pay the loan so it really isn't free.

So what propitiate for sins is in play here if we have to work for it? Again I
believe in works I believe in a judgment I spend my time worrying
about, eveything will be brought out into the light.
Kelly

The fact you have to add to Jesus' death by saying it wasn't enough for your
salvation

just stop it, i mean it, just shut up, i never said anything of the kind, those are your
words not mine, you self righteous hypocrite, just leave me alone, I have nothing more
I want to say to you.

My point exactly people like you dont care for anyone but yourself, you self motivated,
self interested and about as far removed from Jesus as anyone could imagine.

Originally posted by josephw
Are you looking for an argument Rajk? 😉

May I ask you this? If salvation is a gift and it is received by faith, and not by doing good works, then how is it that you say we must do good works in order to be saved?

The whole thing is based on a fairy tale, that of the original sin of your so-called Adam. There never was such a person, so the entire edifice rests on lies. Of course you buy into the lies hook line and sinker.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
The fact you have to add to Jesus' death by saying it wasn't enough for your
salvation

just stop it, i mean it, just shut up, i never said anything of the kind, those are your
words not mine, you self righteous hypocrite, just leave me alone, I have nothing more
I want to say to you.

I tell you what cup cake don't resond to a conversation you don't want drug into
and you will not have to worry about what gets said to you.

I am hitting this point really hard because I think those that demand works
to be saved are saying Jesus' death isn't enough, if your one of those than that
is in my opinion what you are doing. If you don't want to hear it, I'd not look
into this discussion again.
Kelly

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
The fact you have to add to Jesus' death by saying it wasn't enough for your
salvation

just stop it, i mean it, just shut up, i never said anything of the kind, those are your
words not mine, you self righteous hypocrite, just leave me alone, I have nothing more
I want to say to you.

My point exactly people like you dont care for anyone bu ...[text shortened]... self motivated,
self interested and about as far removed from Jesus as anyone could imagine.

Robbie,

KellyJay is right. Because you do not see WHO it was that died and rose you do not appreciate the extensive and eternal significance of that death and resurrection.

This goes along with being taught that Jesus Christ is Michael an angel.
This foes along with not realizing that the Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ in another form, a Person . unusual yes indeed, but a living divine Person.

This has nothing to do with the messenger being selfish or self righteous or not caring or self centered. It has to do with the tremendous significance to every person that accpeting that death and resurrection of Christ is.

The effectual power of His sacrifice is intrinsically bound up with Him being Who He is - God-Man.

Originally posted by jaywill
Robbie,

KellyJay is right. Because you do not see WHO it was that died and rose you do not appreciate the extensive and eternal significance of that death and resurrection.

This goes along with being taught that Jesus Christ is Michael an angel.
This foes along with not realizing that the Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ in another form, a Person ...[text shortened]... e effectual power of His sacrifice is intrinsically bound up with Him being Who He is - God-Man.

I resent all attempts to define and evaluate my appreciation for the sacrifice of Jesus
Christ based upon your understanding. How dare you attempt to evaluate my
appreciation on the basis of your doctrinal stance, it has to be one of the most
arrogant, condescending and self righteous statements i think i have read on my time
here. I was willing to extend to you, despite the fact that i do not believe any of these
things that you profess, at least a sincere appreciation for what you believe and you
could not even extend to me the same, but instead attempted to define my
appreciation on the basis of your understanding and judge me as somehow
unappreciative, that is simply as far removed from the Christ as it gets.

Christians are defined by the love they have for each other, not by some extra
Biblical Neoplatonic metaphysics.

Originally posted by josephw
.. Believers will be judged, but not for sin. The penalty for sin was paid for by Jesus on the cross.

The idea that one can sin without consequences is just ludicrious.

Christ died for all sinners, but once you have accepted Christ there is no room to sin at will, and claim that you are saved therefore you pay no price for sin.

What the hell kind of Christian thinks that it is OK to sin and still get eternal life?

Do you really read the Bible at all?

Start with Romans 6. You cannot sin while you are under grace, and if you sin then there is no more grace. Read it. Sin destroys grace.

Are you telling me that all you millions of jokers out there who claim to be saved by grace and that you cannot lose your salvation .. are you saying that NONE OF YOU SIN? Puhleeese !! Boy ... what do you people have in your head.

Sin destroys Grace !

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I resent all attempts to define and evaluate my appreciation for the sacrifice of Jesus
Christ based upon your understanding. How dare you attempt to evaluate my
appreciation on the basis of your doctrinal stance, it has to be one of the most
arrogant, condescending and self righteous statements i think i have read on my time
here. I was wil ...[text shortened]... ined by the love they have for each other, not by some extra
Biblical Neoplatonic metaphysics.

I'm evaluating your stance which is Jesus death and rising from the dead was
and is not enough you have to add to it. I know cults do that to get their
followers to do more, since again how much is enough? If you do not want to
talk about this I suggest you back out like another here did, because this is
the topic. God's grace is a free gift while you want to pay for it with works, you
cannot earn God's grace it is a gift, and it is insulting to suggest you have to
work to be saved. You have to work yes, but not to be saved, your works will be
judged, but that is what is being judged your works. If you don't know Jesus
Christ, if you do not belong to Him, your works will not get you into heaven He
is both your Lord and Savior or not. Why not push circumcision as well?
Kelly

Originally posted by Rajk999
The idea that one can sin without consequences is just ludicrious.

Christ died for all sinners, but once you have accepted Christ there is no room to sin at will, and claim that you are saved therefore you pay no price for sin.

What the hell kind of Christian thinks that it is OK to sin and still get eternal life?

Do you really read the Bible at a ...[text shortened]... OF YOU SIN? Puhleeese !! Boy ... what do you people have in your head.

Sin destroys Grace !

Who here has said it is okay to sin?
You are one of the most twisted people here.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Who here has said it is okay to sin?
You are one of the most twisted people here.
Kelly

Clearly you are one of the most illiterate people here. Read the post to which I was replying. JosephW said ..

.. Believers will be judged, but not for sin.

It means a Christian can sin but not be judged.

Clearly you do not read the Bible. Paul said :

Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
(Romans 2:1-13)

Please get an average 10 year old to read and interpret that passage for you.

- Nobody can sin and escape judgment.
- Everyone will be judged according to their works.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Clearly you are one of the most illiterate people here. Read the post to which I was replying. JosephW said ..

[b].. Believers will be judged, but not for sin.

It means a Christian can sin but not be judged.

Clearly you do not read the Bible. Paul said :

[quote]Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for where ...[text shortened]...

- Nobody can sin and escape judgment.
- Everyone will be judged according to their works.[/b]

"What the hell kind of Christian thinks that it is OK to sin and still get eternal life?
"

You said this, I suggest you spend more time reading what you write and you
will not be taken back when people respond to you and call you out on it. I do
not believe you can show me JosephW ever saying at any time it is okay to sin.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
.. I do not believe you can show me JosephW ever saying at any time it is okay to sin.
Kelly

What does this mean .. per JosephW..

Believers will be judged, but not for sin. The penalty for sin was paid for by Jesus on the cross.

This means that you Christians can sin and not do good works and not be judged for it because Christ paid the penalty for your sins.

Christ said no such thing. Christ is going to judge you by your works.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I resent all attempts to define and evaluate my appreciation for the sacrifice of Jesus
Christ based upon your understanding. How dare you attempt to evaluate my
appreciation on the basis of your doctrinal stance, it has to be one of the most
arrogant, condescending and self righteous statements i think i have read on my time
here. I was wil ...[text shortened]... ined by the love they have for each other, not by some extra
Biblical Neoplatonic metaphysics.

Sorry to upset you so. I am not trying to do that.

However, your ironic reference to Neoplatonic metaphysics may be interesting. Yes, some Christian apologist may have foolishly relied on Greek philosophy to defend against attacks against Christianity.

However, your founder Charles Russell had a preoccupation with pyramids and ancient Egyptian numerology. I don't see you up in arms about that.

YouTube&feature=fvst

YouTube&feature=fvwrel

Let's see how you'll dance around this metaphysical honoring pyramid erected on Charles Russell's grave in Pennsylvania.