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Originally posted by @tom-wolseyNah it just means they failed God’s IQ test, one of them anyway. The smart ones like you figured it out in time to be saved. But now the cat’s out of the bag on this one ... and still some will refuse to believe it. Oh well, God will surely provide a simple enough test that even they will “get it.” God knows in advance how simple to make it so all will pass ... maybe.
I could inundate you with verses from the bible that declare God's omniscience but I'll give you enough credit to assume you already know the bible says it. That leaves your dispute to mean you contest the truth of the bible itself. If that's the case, then let's have a beer and talk about football, because an RHP forum discussion isn't going to fix that.
Originally posted by @js357The cat's out of the bag?! 😲
Nah it just means they failed God’s IQ test, one of them anyway. The smart ones like you figured it out in time to be saved. But now the cat’s out of the bag on this one ... and still some will refuse to believe it. Oh well, God will surely provide a simple enough test that even they will “get it.” God know in advance how simple to make it so all will pass ... maybe.
I better hide the milk.
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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeThe jig is up.
The cat's out of the bag?! 😲
I better hide the milk.
Originally posted by @bigdoggproblem"infinite" knowledge and "knows all things" don't indicate some weak ability to just predict human behavior.
There are verses which indicate a great power to foresee the future, and predict human behavior. Impressive though those insights may be, they do not get us all the way to Omniscience. That is a huge claim. Worse, in the Bible, there are hints here and there that maybe God did not know about certain things, but those are cavalierly dismissed by believers.
As for the "hints" that God doesn't know about certain things, that is addressed directly by this thread. Now who is cavalierly dismissing what?
Originally posted by @tom-wolseyOpen the floodgates.
"infinite" knowledge and "knows all things" don't indicate some weak ability to just predict human behavior.
As for the "hints" that God doesn't know about certain things, that is addressed directly by this thread. Now who is cavalierly dismissing what?
Originally posted by @bigdoggproblemIt would appear the river ran dry.
Open the floodgates.
Originally posted by @bigdoggproblemThe river ran dry
It would appear the river ran dry.
The river ran dry
Ya can't catch me
Cuz the rabbit done died
I didn't know what you meant by open the floodgates but I guess you're asking for verses that claim God's omniscience. I solved this question in my own research years ago and parked it in the back of my mind as irrefutable--but I haven't looked at it in a while so in the interest of time, I'm going to search for a list already provided on the net. Shouldn't take me much time at all. Be back.
God's omniscience in the bible:
Psalm 147:5
Great is our Lord and abundant in strength; His understanding is infinite.
1 John 3:20
in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things.
Psalm 139:1-4
Even before there is a word on my tongue, Behold, O LORD, You know it all.
Matthew 10:30
[He even knows every single hair on our heads] But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
Psalm 147:4
[He even knows every single star, intimately] He counts the number of the stars; He gives names to all of them.
Hebrews 4:13
[He sees and understands every creature] And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.
Psalm 139:1-3
O LORD, You have searched me and known me. You know when I sit down and when I rise up; You understand my thought from afar. You scrutinize my path and my lying down, And are intimately acquainted with all my ways.
Psalm 44:21
[He know the secrets in all of our hearts] Would not God find this out? For He knows the secrets of the heart.
1 Chronicles 28:9
...for the LORD searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts...
Isaiah 40:28
Do you not know? Have you not heard? The Everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth Does not become weary or tired His understanding is inscrutable.
1 Kings 8:39
...for You [Lord] alone know the hearts of all the sons of men...
Acts 1:24
And they prayed and said, "You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men....
Originally posted by @tom-wolseySaruman's omniscience in Lord of the Rings
God's omniscience in the bible:
Voldemort's omniscience in Harry Potter.
You get my drift?
Originally posted by @wolfgang59If your drift is, the bible is a fantasy novel? I don't agree with it but I get it.
Saruman's omniscience in Lord of the Rings
Voldemort's omniscience in Harry Potter.
You get my drift?
Originally posted by @tom-wolseyOr maybe Harry Potter is not fiction?
If your drift is, the bible is a fantasy novel? I don't agree with it but I get it.
Originally posted by @wolfgang59Redundant. I get your point. I don't agree with it. And we could go on a lengthy exchange about the stark differences between the bible and a recently written fantasy novel series. But that's not necessary, is it?
Or maybe Harry Potter is not fiction?
Originally posted by @tom-wolseyFirst, I take "understanding" to mean "comprehension ability". Fine. Let's say that there is no poser, and no puzzler, that God cannot solve. That is well and good, but it does not rule out that God is ignorant of certain true propositions. It just means that, should he stumble upon a new conundrum stemming from a discovered truth, he would be able to figure it out as long as he had sufficient information to do so.
God's omniscience in the bible:
Psalm 147:5
Great is our Lord and abundant in strength; [b]His understanding is infinite.
1 John 3:20
in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things.
Psalm 139:1-4
Even before there is a word on my tongue, Behold, O LORD, You know it all.
Matthe ...[text shortened]... en...[/b]
Acts 1:24
And they prayed and said, "You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men....[/b]
Second, I believe I have already granted that God has the ability to predict human behavior. Let's further add to this and say that God knows all true propositions about humans.
1 John 3:20 - I think context matters. The passage is talking about what God knows with respect to morality ("our heart condemns us" is our conscience telling us we've done something wrong). "All things" in this case means "all moral truths". Very well.
Heb. 4:13 - my counterpoint will sound outlandish as hell, but with a claim like Omniscience, I think I'm afforded that luxury. No possible fact, no matter how unlikely we humans may perceive it to be, can escape the notice of an Omnisicient being! The contextual groundwork laid by "Him with whom we have to do" matters. NKVJ has a more pointed rendering of this phrase: "Him to whom we must give account", meaning, God will judge all humanity. Sure. But none of this rules out morally perfect alien races on other planets that God quit watching because he realized no judgment would be necessary.
OK. So what things might not God know? How about the names of the planets? Since he named all the stars, no doubt he gets around the Universe quite thoroughly, and yet I can't help but notice that other cosmic phenomenon aren't named, and I'm unwilling to assume that he named all of them simply because he named all the stars. What of Nebulae? Or Black Holes? Perhaps he is like a niche collector, and stars are his "thing", and not so much other celestial objects.
And all this before we've hit the brick wall of the General Argument From Evil.