Pieces of meat that walk and talk?

Originally posted by JS357

I've thought about this for a while and think the more likely interpretation is that kj thinks a purely non-theistic materialistic approach to human life - it's history, future, psychology etc. - leaves the non-believer with no option but to think of and treat people as pieces of meat that walk and talk. Of course kj is the final arbiter on this topic. The comparison to meat is of course a rhetorical device sort of like the slippery slope, leading as it does to an expectation of brutish or worse behavior.

There are a range of elements of subtle dehumanization that interlock.

KellyJay's "rhetorical device" about people being just "meat" is, of course, simply a bit of calculated vitriolic disdain from him (perhaps compensating a wee bit for his general huffy impotent silences and the various Möbius bands of "logic" he trots out all the time to the steadily decreasing number of dissenters he is willing to speak to).

Grampy Bobby used to witter on about non-Christians having no human spirit and having no souls.

There are Christians who tout the moral righteousness of burning "humans" (non-believers) in a furnace and not letting them die.

There is the general misanthropy about the meaninglessness and the hopelessness of non-Christian lives.

There are the comparisons to animals.

There are sometimes the analogies to viruses, plagues, infestations and cancer.

There is the tarring of everyone as "evil" in combination with the unilateral declaration of believers being "forgiven" and being "saved", not to mention immortal

There are the hopes expressed that all non-believers will soon be destroyed by the world's end.

The elements are many; the vehemence with which they are flung around varies.

Originally posted by FMF
[b]I've thought about this for a while and think the more likely interpretation is that kj thinks a purely non-theistic materialistic approach to human life - it's history, future, psychology etc. - leaves the non-believer with no option but to think of and treat people as pieces of meat that walk and talk. Of course kj is the final arbiter on this topic. The co ...[text shortened]... e world's end.

The elements are many; the vehemence with which they are flung around varies.

It is beyond me to differentiate which of these critiques applies specifically to something kj said and which reflect a generalized attitude that can legitimately be assigned to certain self-identified Christians who wear a smug mask of confidence that they will be among they elite while others who they seem to be able to identify, undergo eternal torment.

It's beyond me because I haven't kept up with which of these things has been said by kj specifically, and what has been said by others who count themselves among that favored group. I do think all of them have been said by one or another over the years on this forum or on the usenet group alt.atheism which I frequented some 20 odd years ago.

My off the internet Christian friends - and my Jewish and Muslim friends - don't talk this way to me, not even my JW relatives. The internet seems to bring these things to the surface, but only if they are available to be surfaced.

I don't intend to make a bigger thing of this than it deserves, but once in a while we need to get things said. If there are self described Christians who meet the description you lay out here, they should be told by someone they believe, how little they are doing to bring their non-believing fellows into the fold.

Originally posted by JS357
My off the internet Christian friends - and my Jewish and Muslim friends - don't talk this way to me, not even my JW relatives. The internet seems to bring these things to the surface, but only if they are available to be surfaced.

Indeed. As I have 'testified' on this forum many times, rather too many of the Christians active here do not measure up very well against the Christians I have interacted with in real life, as it were.

Originally posted by FMF
Indeed. As I have 'testified' on this forum many times, rather too many of the Christians active here do not measure up very well against the Christians I have interacted with in real life, as it were.

I'm going to put my hand up for Rajk here. He has seemed to say that people can understand Christs way by walking the walk, without necessarily having to talk the talk.
The Christians I have met, the few of them, have also shown this attitude towards me when discussing spiritual matters. They realize the difference between right action, which comes from right understanding as opposed to saying the 'right things' all the goddam time - which seems to turn Christians into robots.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I'm going to put my hand up for Rajk here. He has seemed to say that people can understand Christs way by walking the walk, without necessarily having to talk the talk.
The Christians I have met, the few of them, have also shown this attitude towards me when discussing spiritual matters. They realize the difference between right action, which comes fro ...[text shortened]... d to saying the 'right things' all the goddam time - which seems to turn Christians into robots.

From the very first book of the bible, mankind has been judged by their actions, not just their words.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
From the very first book of the bible, mankind has been judged by their actions, not just their words.

The two are related but surely actions speak louder.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
The two are related but surely actions speak louder.

Absolutely. Take for example the passage ' ...it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.'

A 'rich man' can't give away his riches by saying nice and righteous things. The rich man has to actively give away his wealth to help his fellow man, to become poor in material wealth but rich in spirit.

Originally posted by FMF
[b]I've thought about this for a while and think the more likely interpretation is that kj thinks a purely non-theistic materialistic approach to human life - it's history, future, psychology etc. - leaves the non-believer with no option but to think of and treat people as pieces of meat that walk and talk. Of course kj is the final arbiter on this topic. The co ...[text shortened]... e world's end.

The elements are many; the vehemence with which they are flung around varies.

And a certain percentage of people actually think Trump is "doing a good job" as president.

My point is that, opinions are common.

Being right, not so much.

Originally posted by Suzianne
And a certain percentage of people actually think Trump is "doing a good job" as president.

My point is that, opinions are common.

Being right, not so much.

So do you think KellyJay's opinion about "secular" people being "pieces of meat that walk and talk" is right? Is it common among Christians?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I'm going to put my hand up for Rajk here. He has seemed to say that people can understand Christs way by walking the walk, without necessarily having to talk the talk.
The Christians I have met, the few of them, have also shown this attitude towards me when discussing spiritual matters. They realize the difference between right action, which comes fro ...[text shortened]... d to saying the 'right things' all the goddam time - which seems to turn Christians into robots.

Righteous living is what it is all about, not talk, or claims of faith. Yes, and the Bible says that clearly too but Christians rather ignore it.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christians like Josephw are lost souls .. lost in the ignorance of church dogma which teaches doctrines contrary to Christ.

To have Christ means to follow his commandments. Christians who do not follow Christ are the ones who are pieces of meat .. and most dont even believe in following Christ. They just believe in proclaimng their belief with their mouth.

So those in the deepest part of say, the Amazon, having never had contact with the outside world EVER, are to a man woman and child, by definition, lost souls.

And whose fault is that, eh? Must be the fault of Christians, failing to bring their precious word to those lost folks, eh. Won't your god be a bit riled at that?

And what about the people of the world say 2500 years ago? ALL of them lost souls, right? So the entire race of humans and those close to humans, like Neandertals, Denisovans and such ALL lost souls for hundreds of thousands of years, none of which ever heard of Jesus. So the saved souls are a kind of modern phenomena, right?

Originally posted by sonhouse
So those in the deepest part of say, the Amazon, having never had contact with the outside world EVER, are to a man woman and child, by definition, lost souls.

And whose fault is that, eh? Must be the fault of Christians, failing to bring their precious word to those lost folks, eh. Won't your god be a bit riled at that?

And what about the people of t ...[text shortened]... rs, none of which ever heard of Jesus. So the saved souls are a kind of modern phenomena, right?

You failed to read what I wrote.

Originally posted by sonhouse
So those in the deepest part of say, the Amazon, having never had contact with the outside world EVER, are to a man woman and child, by definition, lost souls.

And whose fault is that, eh? Must be the fault of Christians, failing to bring their precious word to those lost folks, eh. Won't your god be a bit riled at that?

And what about the people of t ...[text shortened]... rs, none of which ever heard of Jesus. So the saved souls are a kind of modern phenomena, right?

Every single man, woman and child is born lost and separated from God by sin.

Jesus Christ heals the rift between man and God by paying the price for man's redemption with His own blood.

But you already know all that, right?

God knows every one that belongs to Him, and every one that doesn't. The eternal destiny of each individual is in God's hands, not ours.

Get yourself right with God on His terms and your eternal destination will be made secure.

Originally posted by josephw
Every single man, woman and child is born lost and separated from God by sin.

Jesus Christ heals the rift between man and God by paying the price for man's redemption with His own blood.

But you already know all that, right?

God knows every one that belongs to Him, and every one that doesn't. The eternal destiny of each individual is in God's hands, ...[text shortened]... s.

Get yourself right with God on His terms and your eternal destination will be made secure.

I know the dogma. The fact it is a pile of shyte is something else.

Originally posted by sonhouse
I know the dogma. The fact it is a pile of shyte is something else.

Well, the idea of dying and ceasing to exist is an even bigger pile of Shyte. It's just plain ignorant.

You should consider a paradigm shift in thinking.