Please analyze this...

Originally posted by twhitehead
It seems rather odd then that you and Grampy seem intent on writing pages and pages about salvation and how to obtain it but practically nothing about this great white throne that was the object of the original question. It feels like a bait and switch.

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It seems rather odd then that you and Grampy seem intent on writing pages and pages about salvation and how to obtain it but practically nothing about this great white throne that was the object of the original question. It feels like a bait and switch.
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A record of your life and deeds is before God. The record is infallible. It is also undisputable. There are no mistakes, no deletions, no additions.

The blood of Jesus Christ God's Son cleanses us from all sins. If you reject Christ your name will not be recorded in the book of life.

You will follow your leader to share his eternal destiny. You go with your leader. If Christ is your leader, you will share His glorious future. If Satan is your leader and you never could repent from the rush of opposing God, you will share Satan's miserable destiny.

You choose which way you want to go. That's all.

I want my name recorded in the book of life. So I received Jesus as my Lord and Savior.

Originally posted by jaywill
It is pretty self explanatory. Just read it in Revelation 20.

Don't tell me that you are not told there what is essential to know.

I don't care what is essential to know - I'm an atheist remember. You asked me whether IQ would be useful on Judgement day and when I gave my best answer you started preaching about something that had nothing to do with judgement day.

If the answers were all in Revelation 20, then we could have simply started with that and checked whether IQ was mentioned.

Originally posted by jaywill
I want my name recorded in the book of life. So I received Jesus as my Lord and Savior.

That sounds so selfish, in total contrast to what Jesus preached.

I also don't think anyone in their sane mind would reject Christ, so I fail to see why you make such a big fuss about not having done so. I also think that Satan has no followers. The only problem is that it really has nothing to do with accepting or rejecting Christ is has to do with whether the option comes up in the first place. For those of us who don't believe in him, the option is not available.

Originally posted by twhitehead
That sounds so selfish, in total contrast to what Jesus preached.

I also don't think anyone in their sane mind would reject Christ, so I fail to see why you make such a big fuss about not having done so. I also think that Satan has no followers. The only problem is that it really has nothing to do with accepting or rejecting Christ is has to do with wh ...[text shortened]... up in the first place. For those of us who don't believe in him, the option is not available.

Call me cynical but I anticipate a lengthy case being made from this response of yours, with various sources of "evidence", that a Christ figure did exist (staying silent about whether this evidence implies magic Jesus or mortal Jesus), whereby an admission he may probably have existed (in the least as a mortal like you or I) leads to the claim you're not sane for rejecting him. 😕

I am actually ambivalent on the issue as to whether Jesus the human existed.

Originally posted by twhitehead
That sounds so selfish, in total contrast to what Jesus preached.

I also don't think anyone in their sane mind would reject Christ, so I fail to see why you make such a big fuss about not having done so. I also think that Satan has no followers. The only problem is that it really has nothing to do with accepting or rejecting Christ is has to do with wh ...[text shortened]... up in the first place. For those of us who don't believe in him, the option is not available.

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That sounds so selfish, in total contrast to what Jesus preached.
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Quite the contrary. If I want to be a part of the eternal purpose for which God created man, it won't do me any good to be thrown into a trash can forever.

And you would be extremely hard pressed to show me not coming to the redeeming Lamb of God and not receiving the life that He offers is somehow in harmony with what Jesus taught.

This is your problem twhitehead. All you really have is your cleverness. It is not wisdom. It is merely cleverness.

Now show me how wanting my name recorded in the book of life is contrary to the teaching of Jesus in this passage:

"Behold, I have given you the authority to tread upon serpents and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

However, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are recorded in the heavens." (Luke 10:19,20)

What happened to, don't be so selfish, to want your names recorded in the heavens ?


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I also don't think anyone in their sane mind would reject Christ, so I fail to see why you make such a big fuss about not having done so.
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What big fuss ? I simply stated the teaching of the Bible. No need to fuss.

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I also think that Satan has no followers.
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Why then is he called "the god of this world"?

Paul writes to the Ephesians Christians about their past as unbelievers in Christ:

"And you, though dead in your offenses and sins, In which you once walked according to the age of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, of the spirit which is now operating in the sons of disobedience;

Among whom we also all conducted ourselves once in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature the children of wrath, even as the rest." (Eph. 2:1-3)

Satan's followers are slaves. The slaves refusing to be set free will share the same miserable destiny as the slave master.

And the Apostle John wrote that "We know that we are of God, and the WHOLE WORLD lies in the evil one." (my emphasis, 1 John 5:19)

You are not neutral. You are not on the fence. You are either in Christ or in the world which lies like on an operating table, helpless under the dealings of "the evil one" like an evil surgeon.

You wish to think of yourself as aloof from it all, on the fence, neutral about the whole matter. But the Bible won't allow you such a "objective" position.

" ... Go away from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matt. 25:41)

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The only problem is that it really has nothing to do with accepting or rejecting Christ is has to do with whether the option comes up in the first place. For those of us who don't believe in him, the option is not available
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An utterly fool hearty confidence. The depth of your self deception is really deep.
You cannot pretend that you have not set your deciding will to make a choice.

Those for whom an option maybe has not occured, are most likely not seven days a week arguing with Christians on the Internet for the last four or five years.

Originally posted by jaywill
This is your problem twhitehead. All you really have is your [b]cleverness. It is not wisdom. It is merely cleverness.[/b]

Well if what you demonstrate here is wisdom, I want no part of it.

All you seem to be trying to do is find excuses to avoid admitting your selfish choice. Yet both of us know perfectly well that the reasons you list here had nothing to do with your decision. Sadly you show no hint of cleverness in your attempts at evasion.

What big fuss ? I simply stated the teaching of the Bible. No need to fuss.
I was referring to your 'decision' not the teaching of the Bible.

Why then is he called [b]"the god of this world"?[/b]
I haven't got a clue. Maybe you could work it out. Do you know of someone who rejected Christs offer? Or did you not, in your wisdom, follow the argument I was making?

You wish to think of yourself as aloof from it all, on the fence, neutral about the whole matter. But the Bible won't allow you such a "objective" position.
I claimed no such position. What I claimed was that the offer had not been put to me so I was independent of those who accept or reject the offer.

An utterly fool hearty confidence. The depth of your self deception is really deep.
I thought that would come up. Now you can mind read. How very wise of you.

You cannot pretend that you have not set your deciding will to make a choice.
There is no pretense, it is a fact.

Those for whom an option maybe has not occured, are most likely not seven days a week arguing with Christians on the Internet for the last four or five years.
Why not? I have been arguing with Christians for over 20 years. That doesn't mean that at some point I believed Jesus made me an offer and I willingly rejected it. Your wisdom has deserted you and you are left without wisdom or cleverness.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Well if what you demonstrate here is wisdom, I want no part of it.

All you seem to be trying to do is find excuses to avoid admitting your selfish choice. Yet both of us know perfectly well that the reasons you list here had nothing to do with your decision. Sadly you show no hint of cleverness in your attempts at evasion.

[b]What big fuss ? I simp ...[text shortened]... ejected it. Your wisdom has deserted you and you are left without wisdom or cleverness.

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All you seem to be trying to do is find excuses to avoid admitting your selfish choice.
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You're using excuses to avoid showing through the passages I submitted that your logic holds.

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Yet both of us know perfectly well that the reasons you list here had nothing to do with your decision. Sadly you show no hint of cleverness in your attempts at evasion.
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I notice, you are still evading Jesus telling His disciples to "rejoice" that their names were recorded in the heavens.

And your pontificating "both of us know perfectly well" is just that, you pontificating on your imagination.

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I was referring to your 'decision' not the teaching of the Bible.
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My decision was based on the realization that nothing could compete with or compare to the Son of God.

That was over 30 years ago. Still I see nothing that can compare or compete with Jesus Christ.

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Why then is he called "the god of this world"?
I haven't got a clue.
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You can get a clue. Read your Bible. You have plenty of other erroneous clues about God's heart and spiritual matters.

Atheists specialize in manufacturing tons of erroneous clues to make their case against God.

I know, you are detached and do not beleive God exists. I know the posture.

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Maybe you could work it out. Do you know of someone who rejected Christs offer? Or did you not, in your wisdom, follow the argument I was making?
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The only one who comes to my mind right now is Judas Iscariot. He betrayed the Son of God with a kiss. Your clever statement that by being saved I was being selfish contrary to the teaching of Jesus, reminded me of the hypocrisy of the kiss of Judas.

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I claimed no such position. What I claimed was that the offer had not been put to me so I was independent of those who accept or reject the offer.
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The offer has been put to you. Do you think that you will be able to tell God "Well, I was an atheist. I didn't believe you existed. So, it follows that any offer you gave was not to me."?

It won't work.

Originally posted by jaywill
You're using excuses to avoid showing through the passages I submitted that your logic holds.

Not at all.

I notice, you are still evading Jesus telling His disciples to [b]"rejoice" that their names were recorded in the heavens.[/b]
I am not evading it. I am pointing out that both of us know perfectly well that that verse took no part in your decision. If you deny it then you are a liar.

My decision was based on the realization that nothing could compete with or compare to the Son of God.

That was over 30 years ago. Still I see nothing that can compare or compete with Jesus Christ.
So all your verses and excuses were just attempts to sidetrack me.

You can get a clue.
Not sure that I want too.

Atheists specialize in manufacturing tons of erroneous clues to make their case against God.
You are mistaken if you think that I manufacture clues. I am a reasonably honest individual and believe what I say most of the time. I do look for and think of good arguments against your position, but I do not 'manufacture' them. I genuinely believe them to be valid arguments. This is quite in contrast with most theists I argue with about religious matters - they readily concoct things they don't believe to support their position - and usually when it is pointed out, they admit as such.

The only one who comes to my mind right now is Judas Iscariot. He betrayed the Son of God with a kiss.
And why do you think he did that? Was he insane? Or is it possible he didn't know the choice was available?

The offer has been put to you.
But I am not aware of it, so I can not make a choice.

Do you think that you will be able to tell God "Well, I was an atheist. I didn't believe you existed. So, it follows that any offer you gave was not to me."?
If he did exist and asked me then yes I would probably tell him that, but then he would probably know it already.
Except that now I read your question more carefully I see you have subtly changed the scenario. The question is not whether or not an offer has been made, but whether or not I have made a choice on the matter. My claim is that I cannot make a choice on a matter that I am not aware of.

Since I doubt you can see it yet, let me ask you this:
Have you decided to reject Plutos offer of a knighthood in his 7th Kingdom?
Do you think any protestations of not being aware of the offer will save you from being condemned to being made a eunuch and forced to serve Venus?

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]====================================
All you seem to be trying to do is find excuses to avoid admitting your selfish choice.
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You're using excuses to avoid showing through the passages I submitted that your logic holds.

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Yet both of us know perfectly well that sted. So, it follows that any offer you gave was not to me."?

It won't work.[/b]

Atheists specialize in manufacturing tons of erroneous clues to make their case against God.

Interesting statement.

If there are 'tons' of manufactured erroneous clues, you should have no problem naming twenty. I can't think of any.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]Atheists specialize in manufacturing tons of erroneous clues to make their case against God.

Interesting statement.

If there are 'tons' of manufactured erroneous clues, you should have no problem naming twenty. I can't think of any.[/b]

Anecdotal, for the lulz: My brother noticed a red, white and blue bumper sticker

on a pick up truck last week in Texas. It read, "God doesn't believe in atheists".



😉

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Anecdotal, for the lulz: My brother noticed a red, white and blue bumper sticker

on a pick up truck last week in Texas. It read, "God doesn't believe in atheists".



😉

"God don't believe in no atheists"

FIX'D to proper redneck grammar

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
What does 'cultural theist' connote or mean within the realm of spirituality?

Since the term was used first by the previous poster, this is only a guess. I believe he meant that a cultural Christian would be what we in the South call a Sunday-morning Christian. People who attend church regularly (usually a big church) to "network", to be seen--you know, going to worship for all the wrong reasons. The last survey I read indicated that about 90% of American voters believed in God (in some form), so if one aspires to public office, to declare himself an atheist would kinda like being a boxer who entered the ring and led with his chin. The pragmatic approach would be to join a church, get a photo op or two with the minister.preacher/priest..., and presto---you've got a cultural Christian.

Of course, I could be wrong. The author may have meant something else entirely.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
Since the term was used first by the previous poster, this is only a guess. I believe he meant that a cultural Christian would be what we in the South call a Sunday-morning Christian. People who attend church regularly (usually a big church) to "network", to be seen--you know, going to worship for all the wrong reasons. The last survey I read indicated hristian.

Of course, I could be wrong. The author may have meant something else entirely.

Exactly.

Cultural Christian is a broad term used to describe people with either ethnic or religious Christian heritage who may not believe in the religious claims of Christianity, but who retain an affinity for the culture, art, music, and so on related to it.

The majority of the population of the Western hemisphere could broadly be described as cultural Christians, due to the predominance of the Christian faith in Western culture, as well as widely celebrated religious holidays such as Easter and Christmas...

Evolutionary biologist and renowned atheist Richard Dawkins has described himself as a cultural Christian.[1] Likewise, non-believing sex advice columnist Dan Savage has described himself as a cultural Catholic: "I'm Catholic--in a cultural sense, not an eat-the-wafer, say-the-rosary, burn-down-the-women's-health-center sense. I was so Catholic that I attended Quigley Preparatory Seminary North, a Catholic high school in Chicago for boys thinking about becoming priests. Along with my classmates I got to meet the pope in 1979 when he dropped by our school during his visit to Chicago. We gave him a soccer ball".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Christian

Cultural Judaism, although often confused with Secular Judaism, is a stream of Judaism that encourages individual thought and understanding in Judaism. Its relation to Judaism is through the history, culture, civilization, ethical values and shared experiences of the Jewish people. Cultural Jews connect to their heritage not through religious beliefs but rather through the languages, literature, art, dance, music, food, and celebrations of the Jewish people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Jew

Originally posted by SwissGambit
"God don't believe in no atheists"

FIX'D to proper redneck grammar

Thanky (but no spanky).

Originally posted by Agerg
Call me cynical but I anticipate a lengthy case being made from this response of yours, with various sources of "evidence", that a Christ figure did exist (staying silent about whether this evidence implies magic Jesus or mortal Jesus), whereby an admission he may probably have existed (in the least as a mortal like you or I) leads to the claim you're not sane for rejecting him. 😕

Agerg, you appear to have the gift of prescience!