Originally posted by FMF
I don't subscribe to the claims you make about God and the life of Jesus Christ.

I don't subscribe to the claims you make about God and the life of Jesus Christ.

Isn't this a ostrich burying its head in the sand to convince itself that it doesn't see? Any scholars of say the first 800 years from Christ's alledged life that believe such a man never existed ?

No claims you believe about this Person ?
Subtract the miraculous.
Just take the non-miraculous teachings.

Where are teachings from someone else which you think better manifest a pure goodness ?

Better yet if you find Christ a FICTIONAL character, what other FICTIONAL character would you submit expressed greater pure goodness ?

Luke Skywalker not included of course. He's TOO good.

Originally posted by FMF
Do you believe we humans, in our treatment of others, should also balance the goodness we are capable of with ghastliness that corresponds to it?

No. We do not know all the facts in an infallible way.
We who judge are too often guilty to having done the same thing.

We also often just get it wrong about what happened.
God never gets it wrong.

And we do not have any ability to reward or punish beyond the grave.
Posthumous awards have no effect on the one who has died.
Such vindication is really only for the education of the rest of us who are alive.

So no, I do not think we should be like God in this regard.
Of course the person being executed by lethal injection for say rape and murder would consider that what was being done to him was perfectly "ghastly".

You see I do not argue that eternal damnation is not horrendously ghastly. I think there is a ghastly response to God which will meet with a ghastly consequence - eternal punishment.

Ghastly, horrendous, terrible, abominable ... whatever. It makes sense to me that a greatest possible offense could exist.

Do you think there could be no such thing as a greatest possible offense?

Originally posted by sonship
Isn't this a ostrich burying its head in the sand to convince itself that it doesn't see? Any scholars of say the first 800 years from Christ's alledged life that believe such a man never existed ?

No, I said I don't subscribe to the claims you make about God and the life of Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by sonship
You see I do not argue that eternal damnation is not horrendously ghastly.

Which brings us back to the key question you have avoided: Do you honestly reckon you can walk away from delivering these ghastly pronouncements and condemnations ~ which you have obtained from reading a book ~ with your moral compass still in working order?

Originally posted by sonship
Do you think there could be no such thing as a greatest possible offense?

Well I think torturing billions of people in burning agony for eternity for not believing something could be the deepest, darkest, greatest possible evil thing I have ever heard anyone come up with. I have no reason to think it actually happens of course; but as an element of an ideology that passes itself off as the "most perfect goodness", it pretty much takes the biscuit. Does that answer your question?

Originally posted by sonship
Where are teachings from someone else which you think better manifest a pure goodness ?

What does this have to do with someone not believing the same things as you just so happen to believe?

Originally posted by FMF
No, I said I don't subscribe to the claims you make about God and the life of Jesus Christ.

You don't "subscribe" to the claims.
Wouldn't it be just as easy to say you think their not true?

So I don't subscribe to a claim that a man named Jesus of Nazareth did not do something or say something to make as powerful impact on the perception of high morality that He did.

In other words, it is harder work for me to believe that no such person ever lived.

Originally posted by FMF
Which brings us back to the key question you have avoided:~ which you have obtained from reading a book ~ with your moral compass still in working order?

Avoided what?
What need is there to "come back"?

This is avoided ?

Do you honestly reckon you can walk away from delivering these ghastly pronouncements and condemnations

I do not intend to "walk away". I intend to go to the world and share the good news of Christ's redemption and salvation.

with your moral compass still in working order?

I think my moral compass is in more working order to believe that God will do what He says He will do with -

"... those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ." ( 2 Thess. 1:8)

My moral compass has been calibrated much better to know that every minute Satan and his hordes are tormented will be another moment of praise to those who with Christ inherit "new heavens and new earth in which righteousness dwells." (2 Pet. 3:13)

I expect that according to His operation I will be comformed to the image of the Son of God - to love what He loves and hate what He hates.

Since the tactic of trying to get me to view eternal damnation as wicked of God is not working too well for you, maybe you should try some other tactic.

And again - I am curious. Do you think that there could be such a thing as a greatest offense against the greatest good ? This question does not require you to "subscribe" to any of our Christian phraseology.

Could a greatest possible offense against goodness exist to you?

Originally posted by FMF
What does this have to do with someone not believing the same things as you just so happen to believe?

It has to do with what you believe.
Is what you believe somehow off bounds for discussion here?

You must find yourself suddenly incapable of answering a Christian's straight forward question without returning one.

There is no reason why you cannot answer my question with a simple Yes or No.

I asked a while back:

Now here's a question that hardly calls for you to adopt theological jargon.
Since I am "joyless" please tell me what you experience which you think would greatly add to my joy.

And the other question which I asked, FMF, which by now I would think you had plenty of time to contemplate.

Since my faith is "joyless" what do you claim to posses which would enhance my deficiency in joy?

No need to "subscribe" to Christian vocabulary.

What do you have that you think would render me more joyful besides my experience of believing in Jesus as Lord and Savior?

Hey, I know "Speed Kills" but this is ridiculous. You should be able to turn this one around to a fairly quick answer in between formulating more cross examinations.

Originally posted by sonship
In other words, it is harder work for me to believe that no such person ever lived.

I am aware of how strong you feel about your beliefs. But your certainty has no effect on me. I have no compelling reason to think that he didn't live. But you give me no compelling reasons to subscribe to your claims about his divinity or his "meaning".

Originally posted by sonship
Could a greatest possible offense against goodness exist to you?

I will copy paste it here again as you are ignoring it and simply asking the question again: I think torturing billions of people in burning agony for eternity for not believing something could be the deepest, darkest, greatest possible evil thing I have ever heard anyone come up with. I have no reason to think it actually happens of course; but as an element of an ideology that passes itself off as the "most perfect goodness", it pretty much takes the biscuit.

As I asked you before: does that answer your question?

Originally posted by sonship
What do you have that you think would render me more joyful besides my experience of believing in Jesus as Lord and Savior?

I will copy paste it here again as you are ignoring it and simply asking the question again: What does this question have to do with someone like me not believing the same things as you just so happen to believe?

Originally posted by sonship
Since I am "joyless" please tell me what you experience which you think would greatly add to my joy.

It's your hair dryer monologues that are sterile and joyless ~ not a jot of any "joy" that you might be experiencing in your everyday life is in evidence. I can scarcely remember you ever saying anything at all about how your religionist beliefs convert into everyday happiness or how they affect your interpersonal relationships in a positive or happy way.

As for how I might or might not increase that happiness is moot, as it is you who is the proselytizer seeking to superimpose your doctrines and superstitions onto me and others, and not me. I do not claim to be a proselytizer. I have addressed this question before repeatedly.

Originally posted by sonship
It has to do with what you believe.
Is what you believe somehow off bounds for discussion here?

You must find yourself suddenly incapable of answering a Christian's straight forward question without returning one.

There is no reason why you cannot answer my question with a simple Yes or No.

I have answered this question several times. I can demonstrate that I do not believe the same things as you without giving you different beliefs to replace yours with.