Originally posted by sonshipIt's interesting talking to some of the Christians that happen to gather here on this forum. You perhaps need to work on the composure evident in your personal reaction to situations in which your proselytism doesn't work, rather than casting yourself as a 'victim' who has been "thrown out" or "thrown away".
I think you are the kind of person who may like to open your door to door knockers, invite them in, but for the sheer pleasure of throwing them out. A kind of "Come preach to me so I can throw you away" must nourish some pleasure you derive talking with Christians.
The book of Ruth is one of the two books named for a woman in a severely paternal culture. The other is Esther.
Ruth was a Moabitess. The Moabites were forbidden to enter into the congregation of Yahweh up to the tenth generation. Yet a book is named for the Moabitess Ruth who entered the congregation of Israel and became a grandmother of David and a a mentioned member of the geneology of Jesus Christ.
God's grace overcame the curse because Ruth had a heart to seek God and God's people.
Originally posted by FMFEndless evasion I count as virtual "throwing out" in a discussion. Especially when the discarded piles on more and more questions without addressing ones put to him.
It's interesting talking to some of the Christians that happen to gather here on this forum. You perhaps need to work on the composure evident in your personal reaction to situations in which your proselytism doesn't work, rather than casting yourself as a 'victim' who has been "thrown out" or "thrown away".
Let me guess, you won't tell me of your greater joy because you don't want to be seen as "proselytizing."
Most people who come here complaining about preaching are just mad they they don't have anything worth telling anyone themselves.
Me, I feel glorious to speak of Christ's life, death and resurrection. I like to speak myself into trouble.
The pure goodness of God is seen in God's choosing not according to man's concept of outward appearance but inward state of the heart.
David was chosen by God to be the king. Yet he was the shepherd boy least expected to be selected. All his older brothers were each expected to be more qualified.
God does not see as man sees. God sees the inward heart. And He saw in the smallest son of Jesse a man after His own heart.
What pure goodness of God was seen in His choosing of David.
Originally posted by sonshipThe matter in hand is that I am not a proselytizer, and not what I do or don't want to be "seen as". You seem to think that your proselytism must be matched or confronted with another brand of proselytism. But I think your invitation to me to proselytize has nothing whatsoever to do with the credibility or moral coherence of what you propagate.
Let me guess, you won't tell me of your greater joy because you don't want to be seen as "proselytizing."
Originally posted by sonshipYou certainly give the impression, sometimes, that you see this as a popularity contest of sorts ~ or a kind of 'my proselytism can beat up your proselytism' kind of way. I do not complain about you preaching; I have simply responded to its content. I perceive a horrible moral darkness at the very epicentre of your beliefs and I have explained why. I am under no apprehensions that you will agree with me. I think what you say is sometimes worth commenting upon. That you feel I "don't have anything worth telling anyone" is something I can accept without any problem.
Most people who come here complaining about preaching are just mad they they don't have anything worth telling anyone themselves.
Originally posted by FMFNo need to go back several years.
I have answered them point blank, repeatedly, and have done so going back several years here on this forum.
Go back several posts and tell me where you answered MY questions.
1.) Could there possibly be a greatest offense?
2.) What joy do you have that could improve my "joyless" faith in Christ?
Yes or No for the first question.
Your personal joy in whatever you recommend to help my "joyless" Christian life for the second.
Point blank.
I see God's pure goodness in God perfecting Moses to be the leader to lead the Hebrews out of Egypt.
Moses was brought up in Pharoah's household. His first attempt to be a hero involved the murder of an Egyptian and hiding his body in the sand.
Was he appreciated for what he did? Nope. The next day the saved Hebrews slaves said "You going to kill me the way you killed that Egyptian yesterday?"
He realized he has been seen. He fled. He lived on the backside of the desert. But God perfected this "do it yourself" savior and transformed him into the meekest man on earth. This Moses was sent to Pharoah to cause Egypt to "Let My people GO."
Leadership as the world has never seen was manifested in the writer of the first five books of the Bible - Moses.
What pure goodness of God to perfect such a vessel.
Originally posted by sonshipNo need to go back several years.
1.) Could there possibly be a greatest offense?
This one takes the biscuit: I think the ideology of torturing billions of people in burning agony for eternity for not believing something could be the deepest, darkest, greatest possible evil thing I have ever heard anyone come up with and the greatest moral "offence" I have ever encountered.
2.) What joy do you have that could improve my "joyless" faith in Christ?
I make no pretense that I seek to alter your life. It is your hair dryer ministry here that strikes me as "joyless"; you offer virtually no information about your the "joy" ~ or otherwise ~ of your life. You have said talking on this forum makes you feel "glorious" and I don't think you make any secret of that. But it comes across as sterile and joyless to me. Me not being convinced by your stated superstitions and religious doctrines is not contingent upon me attempting to replace your religionist orientation with my non-religionist orientation. I am not in a ''my proselytism can beat up your proselytism' situation; I am not a proselytizer.
Originally posted by sonshipYour "Christian life" has no impact on the sense of purpose and fulfilment I have in my life. I have no recommendations to make about your life. I have simply shared with you that I find many of your key assertions and claims not credible. There is no onus on me whatsoever to offer you a package of religious beliefs to replace yours.
Your personal joy in whatever you recommend to help my "joyless" Christian life for the second.
Pure goodness of God.
Though Moses was well trained and well developed by God he falls short of Jesus Christ the Son of God.
All the patriarchs of the Old Testament only approach Perfection. Only Perfect is in the Son of God.
So it was also God's pure goodness that when Moses did mistakenly misrepresent God and display his own wry temper - God took him aside and disciplined him.
Though God told Moses to SPEAK to the rock to let the water flow, Moses said "Here now you rebels. Shall I strike this rock .... etc."
God honored the leader and let him strike the rock and the miraculous water flowed out. But then He told Moses that he was angry when God was not angry. Moses had failed to sanctify the Lord before their eyes and misrepresented his divine deputy authority.
Moses would not be allowed then to enter into the Promise Land.
There are two instances in the exodus where a rock brought forth life saving water. The first was when God told Moses to strike the rock. The second was when God told Moses only to SPEAK to the rock.
This is a type of Christ. He was crucified ONCE. Afterwards we only need to SPEAK to the Son of God to receive divine life.
The Hebrew word for rock in the second instance means something about LIFTED UP. The first rock symbolized Christ in crucifixion. The second instance symbolizes Christ in ascension at the right hand of God never to have to DIE again.
What pure goodness of God in all this. He was faithful the people. He was straight with Moses. He was wise and good to embody in the story an important symbol of the work of the Son of God from Whom the life giving Holy Spirit flows.
He was merciful to back up Moses with the miracle yet also straight to scold Moses and discipline him.
Many a spiritual leader could learn from this - NOT to misrepresent the character of God. That is not to let disposition of annoyance mar their function of God's servant.
And how good to see that we do not need to worship a man on a cross as if He is always being RE-crucified. But it is good to see that He died ONCE for all and is not ascended to heaven. We only need to believe His work and SPEAK to Him for life.