Originally posted by galveston75SHEOL AND HADES
Jesus was in hell for 3 days..... So maybe hell is not what one thinks it is?
Webster’s Dictionary says that the English word “hell” is equal to the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades. In German Bibles Hoelle is the word used instead of “hell”; in Portuguese the word used is inferno, in Spanish infierno, and in French Enfer. The English translators of the Authorized Version, or King James Version, translated Sheol 31 times as “hell,” 31 times as “grave,” and 3 times as “pit.” The Catholic Douay Version translated Sheol 64 times as “hell.” In the Christian Greek Scriptures (commonly called the “New Testament&rdquo😉, the King James Version translated Hades as “hell” each of the 10 times it occurs.—Matthew 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23; Acts 2:27, 31; Revelation 1:18; 6:8; 20:13, 14.
The question is: What kind of place is Sheol, or Hades? The fact that the King James Version translates the one Hebrew word Sheol three different ways shows that hell, grave and pit mean one and the same thing. And if hell means the common grave of mankind, it could not at the same time mean a place of fiery torture. Well, then, do Sheol and Hades mean the grave, or do they mean a place of torture?
Before answering this question, let us make clear that the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades mean the same thing. This is shown by looking at Psalm 16:10 in the Hebrew Scriptures and Acts 2:31 in the Christian Greek Scriptures, which verses you can see on the next page. Notice that in quoting from Psalm 16:10 where Sheol occurs, Acts 2:31 uses Hades. Notice, too, that Jesus Christ was in Hades, or hell. Are we to believe that God tormented Christ in a hell of fire? Of course not! Jesus was simply in his grave.
When Jacob was mourning for his beloved son Joseph, who he thought had been killed, he said: “I shall go down mourning to my son into Sheol!” (Genesis 37:35) However, the King James Version here translates Sheol “grave,” and the Douay Version translates it “hell.” Now, stop for a moment and think. Did Jacob believe that his son Joseph went to a place of torment to spend eternity there, and did he want to go there and meet him? Or, rather, was it that Jacob merely thought that his beloved son was dead and in the grave and that Jacob himself wanted to die?
Yes, good people go to the Bible hell. For example, the good man Job, who was suffering a great deal, prayed to God: “O that in Sheol [grave, King James Version; hell, Douay Version] you would conceal me, . . . that you would set a time limit for me and remember me!” (Job 14:13) Now think: If Sheol means a place of fire and torment, would Job wish to go and spend his time there until God remembered him? Clearly, Job wanted to die and go to the grave that his sufferings might end.
In all the places where Sheol occurs in the Bible it is never associated with life, activity or torment. Rather, it is often linked with death and inactivity. For example, think about Ecclesiastes 9:10, which reads: “All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol [grave, King James Version; hell, Douay Version], the place to which you are going.” So the answer becomes very clear. Sheol and Hades refer not to a place of torment but to the common grave of mankind. (Psalm 139:8) Good people as well as bad people go to the Bible hell.
Originally posted by galveston75There are a few different words that were translated into the one word "Hell" so
Jesus was in hell for 3 days..... So maybe hell is not what one thinks it is?
it is completely possible that depending on where they are looking at it, it may
not be the same as it is else where.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayIt is a moot subject since hell is only in people's minds. There is no heaven, there is no hell and if there is a god does not interact with humans. If this purported god created the universe it rolled some cosmic dice that does not include raising the status of humans.
There are a few different words that were translated into the one word "Hell" so
it is completely possible that depending on where they are looking at it, it may
not be the same as it is else where.
Kelly
We live and die by our own devices, whether that is being offed by a rogue asteroid or atomic war killing us all or screwing up the climate so much it kills off 99 percent of us, it will be our own doing and there will be no mourning god. Such a god already knows what is going to happen to humans and I hear no god warning us of impending disaster. We have the brains, if not the willpower, to see that for ourselves.
You can pray and believe in your god all you want but it won't save us from ourselves if it comes to that.
Originally posted by galveston75Interesting little side note for you G-75 Hades being a Greek concept means it could quite be from a Pagan source yet you accept it yet you also say the trinity is from a pagan source yet deny it!! Just saying it's a double standard. I argue to say Greek thought permeates the new testament
SHEOL AND HADES
Webster’s Dictionary says that the English word “hell” is equal to the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades. In German Bibles Hoelle is the word used instead of “hell”; in Portuguese the word used is inferno, in Spanish infierno, and in French Enfer. The English translators of the Authorized Version, or King James Version, transla ...[text shortened]... e common grave of mankind. (Psalm 139:8) Good people as well as bad people go to the Bible hell.
Manny
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Originally posted by menace71I didn't say I agree with their belief. We know where the term Hades came from:
Interesting little side note for you G-75 Hades being a Greek concept means it could quite be from a Pagan source yet you accept it yet you also say the trinity is from a pagan source yet deny it!! Just saying it's a double standard. I argue to say Greek thought permeates the new testament
Manny
Greek, Etruscan, and Roman Hells
The ancient Greeks believed in the survival of a soul (psykhe, the word they also used for the butterfly). They called Hades the realm of the dead and believed it was ruled over by a god of the same name. In his book Orpheus—A General History of Religions, French scholar Salomon Reinach wrote of the Greeks: “A widely spread belief was that [the soul] entered the infernal regions after crossing the river Styx in the boat of the old ferryman Charon, who exacted as the fare an obolus [coin], which was placed in the mouth of the dead person. In the infernal regions it appeared before the three judges of the place . . . ; if condemned for its crimes, it had to suffer in Tartarus. . . . The Greeks even invented a Limbo, the abode of children who had died in infancy, and a Purgatory, where a certain mild chastisement purified souls.” According to The World Book Encyclopedia, souls that ended up in Tartarus “suffered eternal torment.”
In Italy the Etruscans, whose civilization preceded that of the Romans, also believed in punishment after death. The Dictionnaire des Religions (Dictionary of Religions) states: “The extreme care that the Etruscans took of their dead is explained by their conception of the nether regions. Like the Babylonians, they considered these to be places of torture and despair for the manes [spirits of the dead]. The only relief for them could come from propitiatory offerings made by their descendants.” Another reference work declares: “Etruscan tombs show scenes of horror that inspired Christian paintings of hell.”
The Romans adopted the Etruscan hell, calling it Orcus or Infernus. They also borrowed the Greek myths about Hades, the king of the underworld, calling him Orcus, or Pluto.
The Jews and the Hebrew Scriptures
What about the Jews before Jesus’ day? Concerning them, we read in the Encyclopædia Britannica (1970): “From the 5th century B.C. onward, the Jews were in close contact with the Persians and the Greeks, both of whom had well-developed ideas of the hereafter. . . . By the time of Christ, the Jews had acquired a belief that wicked souls would be punished after death in Gehenna.” However, the Encyclopædia Judaica states: “No suggestion of this later notion of Gehenna is to be found in Scripture.”
This latter statement is correct. There is no suggestion in the Hebrew Scriptures of a postmortem punishment for a soul in a fiery hell. This frightening doctrine goes back to the post-Flood religions of Babylonia, not to the Bible. Christendom’s doctrine of punishment in hell originated with the early Babylonians. The Catholic idea of remedial suffering in purgatory goes back to the early Egyptian and Oriental religions. Limbo was copied from Greek mythology. Prayers and offerings for the dead were practiced by the Etruscans.
Originally posted by KunsooOkay. You want a more sophisticated answer.
That's kind of a typical answer from Sunday school teachers. If they can't answer it, the basic response is that you shouldn't be asking the question.
Those other questions are fine, but they are discussed thoroughly in other threads. My question was a simple one.
Where is hell? It's where the Bible says it is.
Is heaven in the sky? No.
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Originally posted by josephwAnd where does the Bible say it is?
Okay. You want a more sophisticated answer.
Where is hell? It's where the Bible says it is.
Is heaven in the sky? No.
Didn't Jesus fly up into the sky after his resurrection?
It's not the lack of sophistication that I objected to. It's the apparent lack of curiosity and inquisitiveness of believers. Maybe there's no utilitarian point to know about the afterlife, but are you not the least bit curious?
Originally posted by sonhouseSpoken like a man who knows.
It is a moot subject since hell is only in people's minds. There is no heaven, there is no hell and if there is a god does not interact with humans. If this purported god created the universe it rolled some cosmic dice that does not include raising the status of humans.
We live and die by our own devices, whether that is being offed by a rogue asteroid ...[text shortened]... and believe in your god all you want but it won't save us from ourselves if it comes to that.
Kelly
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Originally posted by menace71Sheol is a different concept. According to Jewish tradition it's where all souls go, whether "good" or "bad," to await what comes next. Other than Daniel 12, the meaning and translation of which is a huge debate, there really isn't mention of a final judgment in the Old Testament, at least not in explicit terms as the NT.
Interesting little side note for you G-75 Hades being a Greek concept means it could quite be from a Pagan source yet you accept it yet you also say the trinity is from a pagan source yet deny it!! Just saying it's a double standard. I argue to say Greek thought permeates the new testament
Manny
Originally posted by galveston75The parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus in Luke 16 appears to contradict your opinion. Could it be that Christ knows a bit more than you or the JWs on this issue ?
.. In all the places where Sheol occurs in the Bible it is never associated with life, activity or torment. .l.
Originally posted by KunsooCuriosity stems from not knowing.
And where does the Bible say it is?
Didn't Jesus fly up into the sky after his resurrection?
It's not the lack of sophistication that I objected to. It's the apparent lack of curiosity and inquisitiveness of believers. Maybe there's no utilitarian point to know about the afterlife, but are you not the least bit curious?
Heaven and hell are both outside of the physical senses. Where is that? How should I know? I've never been there. I'm not curious about it to the degree that would motivate me to debate about it.
Jesus ascended into the sky and then disappeared. He is now in the place the Bible calls heaven. Heaven is God's home so to speak. What more can be said? How did Jesus get from here to there? Who knows? We neither have the power nor the intellect to comprehend such a thing. We simply believe it's true.