question for believers...

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Science must fair badly in your universe. After all, it'd take a man of very limited experience and a heavy dose of arrogance to try and tell the world that the earth circles the sun, and not the other way about, as people had thought for thousands of years, right?

Good Example : I know many EUROPEAN history books claim that people thought the Earth was flat but that only applied to SILLY EUROPEANS .... maybe much like yourself ? I dunno .. just asking. And that Columbus was the first to proclaim that the Earth was not flat. He certainly was not.

Go some research Mr Science Guy. Most civilixations knew the Earth was round, the Greeks , the Egyptians, the Aztecs. ... they all knew. The Europeans were the dumb ones !

Oh.. and by the way Columbus did not discover anything like your history books are infamous for saying. There were people living there, for thousands of years. Now that is what I would call an entire civilisation of people with very limited experience and a heavy dose of arrogance.

If I stood at the front door of someone else's house and you asked me if you could go in and I said "sure", would you be upset when neither of us could open the door?

Good question this what you would do if you stood at "Havens door"or"pearly gate".
Oh its hard one I think Joseph is right but as useall I have my own swing on things.
Lets roll...
1. Why should we let you in?
Answer: I have tried my best of being a good person!
Now, the religons differ on what that is. So please read in to it what ever your belife is and you might come close thats my answer.

Originally posted by eatmybishop
i do not believe in god or any religion; however, i would consider myself a good person, i have never intentionally harmed anyone and i try my best to treat any race or colour with dignity and respect...

with this in mind, when i die, if i stood at the gates of heaven and god said to you, "you choose whether to let him into heaven or send him to hell?", what would you do?

I would say, "Lord, you know there is only one Way to gain entrance into heaven, and this man refused to believe in your only Son, Jesus Christ. My opinion in this matter means nothing. Let your will be done."

Originally posted by Rajk999
Good Example : I know many EUROPEAN history books claim that people thought the Earth was flat but that only applied to SILLY EUROPEANS .... maybe much like yourself ? I dunno .. just asking. And that Columbus was the first to proclaim that the Earth was not flat. He certainly was not.

Go some research Mr Science Guy. Most civilixations knew the Earth wa ...[text shortened]... all an entire civilisation of people with very limited experience and a heavy dose of arrogance.

Scottishinnz deliberately did not use the flat Earth misconception. We all know that the ancient greeks knew the Earth is a sphere and that this was common knowledge through most of recorded history.

His example was the heliocentric verses geocentric views. Althoough Wikipedia suggests that in ancient India as early as 900bc there were heliocentric ideas. However it was certainly not common knowledge and the average person, untill only a few hundred years ago, thought that the Sun went round the Earth.

--- Penguin

Originally posted by Rajk999
Good Example : I know many EUROPEAN history books claim that people thought the Earth was flat but that only applied to SILLY EUROPEANS .... maybe much like yourself ? I dunno .. just asking. And that Columbus was the first to proclaim that the Earth was not flat. He certainly was not.

Go some research Mr Science Guy. Most civilixations knew the Earth wa ...[text shortened]... all an entire civilisation of people with very limited experience and a heavy dose of arrogance.

Although Penguin makes a good point, I'll tackle this one head on.

"Flat Earth" was a religious concept. You try to say that I must be arrogant to reject the notion of God and religion (for the sole reason of popularity, nontheless!), then try to use one of their dumbest ideas to try and prove me wrong! Yeah, good one.


edit; actually, reading further I find this gem - seems you can't even get the basic facts right.

"The common misconception that people before the age of exploration believed that Earth was flat entered the popular imagination after Washington Irving's publication of The Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus in 1828. In the United States, this belief persists in the popular imagination, and is even repeated in some widely read textbooks. Previous editions of Thomas Bailey's The American Pageant stated that "The superstitious sailors ... grew increasingly mutinous...because they were fearful of sailing over the edge of the world"; however, no such historical account is known.[66] Actually, sailors were probably among the first to know of the curvature of Earth from daily observations — seeing how shore landscape features (or masts of other ships) gradually descend/ascend near the horizon."

and

"In Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and Modern Historians, Jeffrey Russell (professor of history at University of California, Santa Barbara) claims that the Flat Earth theory is a fable used to impugn pre-modern civilization, especially that of the Middle Ages in Europe. Today essentially all professional medievalists agree with Russell that the "medieval flat Earth" is a nineteenth-century fabrication, and that the few verifiable "flat Earthers" were the exception."

So, your "example" only exists in your mind.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Although Penguin makes a good point, I'll tackle this one head on.

"Flat Earth" was a religious concept. You try to say that I must be arrogant to reject the notion of God and religion (for the sole reason of popularity, nontheless!), then try to use one of their dumbest ideas to try and prove me wrong! Yeah, good one.


edit; actually, reading ...[text shortened]... Earthers" were the exception."

So, your "example" only exists in your mind.

doesn't every example exist in the mind to start off with?

Originally posted by eatmybishop
doesn't every example exist in the mind to start off with?

Yes, but a physical basis in reality also tends to lend credibility.

Originally posted by eatmybishop
i do not believe in god or any religion; however, i would consider myself a good person, i have never intentionally harmed anyone and i try my best to treat any race or colour with dignity and respect...

with this in mind, when i die, if i stood at the gates of heaven and god said to you, "you choose whether to let him into heaven or send him to hell?", what would you do?

I don't suppose God is a beaurocrat. You'll be in.

Originally posted by Choreant
I don't suppose God is a beaurocrat. You'll be in.

i can sleep easy at night now