Questions on morality

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Some truths are in fact relative I don't doubt that, for example, my favorite color is blue that truth is relative to me and does not apply to all people. I disagree that all truths are relative though. Some truths I do believe are absolute. For example, Jesus died for my sins. If everyone alive were to say Jesus died for my sins it would be true, that it is an absolute/universal truth. Geester would also agree with this is he were to man up.

But your "belief" that Jesus died for your sins is relative to you, it's only a truth for you because you believe it. If someone else doesn't believe it then whether or not it is true, is completely irrelevant.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Either the things that the Bible claims are true or they are not true. If they are true they would be true even if I weren't certain about them or didn't believe them, I obviously believe they are true, but their truthfulness doesn't depend on my certainty whatsoever.

But how can someone who doesn't believe this, choose to believe it.

Anyone else getting deja vu?

Originally posted by divegeester
But how can someone who doesn't believe this, choose to believe it.

Anyone else getting deja vu?

To be honest, I just scan his posts nowadays and if I see the words 'truth' 'objective' or 'absolute' I don't bother reading it. I do the same thing in the newspaper if I see the word 'Trump' or 'salami.'

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
To be honest, I just scan his posts nowadays and if I see the words 'truth' 'objective' or 'absolute' I don't bother reading it. I do the same thing in the newspaper if I see the word 'Trump' or 'salami.'

Beware. Tucked away in all that merely-scanned text, he sometimes insists that you "admit" things and/or thanks you for "clarifying" that you support some hideous moral atrocity, and he may then later body slam you by claiming your unwillingness to endure or constantly play along with his moebius strip of assertion-no-engagement-amnesia is "proof" that you've accepted-everything-and-he's-the-winner. Beware. 😵

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
To be honest, I just scan his posts nowadays and if I see the words 'truth' 'objective' or 'absolute' I don't bother reading it. I do the same thing in the newspaper if I see the word 'Trump' or 'salami.'

Oh. Salami has some value.

Originally posted by divegeester
But how can someone who doesn't believe this, choose to believe it.

Anyone else getting deja vu?

Some say that we don't have the ability to choose what we believe. We must believe what we must believe. But, if that is the case, then they are saying we don't have any choice in what we believe. We are caused to believe certain things because we see the issues, weigh the facts, and make decisions. But, basically, our beliefs are necessary outcomes to what we see and know. But, if that is the case, then we cannot know if what we believe is true or not. Let me explain.

If we are essentially forced to believe things and cannot choose to believe anything, then it is irrelevant whether that which we believe in is true or false. We believe because were forced to believe, not because we weigh the evidence, apply logic, and choose to believe something. Furthermore, it would mean that the position that "we don't have the ability to choose what we believe" can't be shown to be true - because we're forced to believe it regardless of its truth value. since we cannot show it to be true, we cannot rely on the statement "we don't have the ability to choose what we believe". Essentially, the position refutes itself. It refutes itself, then we ought not believe it. In fact, we should choose not to believe it's true. But if we choose to believe it's not true, then we are choosing to believe that we can choose to believe.

https://carm.org/can-you-choose-to-believe-something

Originally posted by divegeester
But your "belief" that Jesus died for your sins is relative to you, it's only a truth for you because you believe it. If someone else doesn't believe it then whether or not it is true, is completely irrelevant.

If it is true then it remains true whether they believe it or not.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If it is true then it remains true whether they believe it or not.

Yes, of course. But they don't know that do they. Which is the whole darn bleeding point isn't it?

FMJ "it's the truth that Jesus died for your sins"
FMF "I don't believe that, but I accept that you do"
FMJ "but it is a universal truth whether you believe it or not"
FMF "oh well now you've explained it, then I believe it too"

🙄

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Some say that we don't have the ability to choose what we believe. We must believe what we must believe. But, if that is the case, then they are saying we don't have any choice in what we believe. We are caused to believe certain things because we see the issues, weigh the facts, and make decisions. But, basically, our beliefs are necessary outcomes to ...[text shortened]... o believe that we can choose to believe.

https://carm.org/can-you-choose-to-believe-something

This is just such utter utter bollocks. How on earth can you force FMF to believe something? Is this what you are trying to do?

Edit. You're lost mate.

Originally posted by divegeester
This is just such utter utter bollocks. How on earth can you force FMF to believe something? Is this what you are trying to do?

Edit. You're lost mate.

I have claimed no such thing, you are the ones claiming he has no choice. I believe he can weigh the evidence, apply logic, and choose to believe something based on evidence. The two of you seem to think that he cannot choose to believe anything and all his beliefs are somehow forced on him.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
I have claimed no such thing, you are the ones claiming he has no choice. I believe he can weigh the evidence, apply logic, and choose to believe something based on evidence. The two of you seem to think that he cannot choose to believe anything and all his beliefs are somehow forced on him.

I'm just going on that stuff you quoted about forced beliefs. To be honest mate, I'm so bored with you. I'm sure you are a decent guy in real life and all that but you really are a one legged pony and it's boring boring boring.

Originally posted by divegeester
I'm just going on that stuff you quoted about forced beliefs. To be honest mate, I'm so bored with you. I'm sure you are a decent guy in real life and all that but you really are a one legged pony and it's boring boring boring.

So do you think we have a choice when it comes to our beliefs or not?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Some say that we don't have the ability to choose what we believe. We must believe what we must believe. ...

Take a stand. Make a mark. This is not rocket science.

Rocket science is kinda easy.

Originally posted by apathist
Take a stand. Make a mark. This is not rocket science.

Rocket science is kinda easy.

It's all good unless that stand is Christianity, right?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
The two of you seem to think that he cannot choose to believe anything and all his beliefs are somehow forced on him.

Who has claimed my beliefs are "forced on" me? Where are the posts where they said this?