Quotes from American Founding Fathers

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
us christians who believe both in god and evolution aren't really christians. we're sinners, and we are doomed to burn in hell.

no your not only sinners you have relegated the teachings of the Christ and have
supplanted them with materialism, which makes you a sinner and an apostate. I do not
believe hell is a Biblical teaching.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Dude f you can just lay your belief on me ill consider it, time is of the essence to
be sure and there is care on every hand.

We'll take it slow piece by piece, i'm in no rush. I've been on this site for nearly 5 years and i can't see myself moving anywhere soon.

A chihuahua evolved from a wolf over a certain period. You accept that. You also accept that a chihuahua doesn't have the same DNA as a wolf, it can't have otherwise it would be a wolf. So it logically follows that over a period of time the DNA code has changed from the wolfs original to a code that now makes a chihuahua. The DNA code has changed over time. Now i'm not debating by how much or how little, and yes they are are essentially the same, but they are not the same, so the code has changed.

Simple yes or no?!

Now that's me done, the practice room is calling my name.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
We'll take it slow piece by piece, i'm in no rush. I've been on this site for nearly 5 years and i can't see myself moving anywhere soon.

A chihuahua evolved from a wolf over a certain period. You accept that. You also accept that a chihuahua doesn't have the same DNA as a wolf, it can't have otherwise it would be a wolf. So it logically follows that ...[text shortened]... nged.

Simple yes or no?!

Now that's me done, the practice room is calling my name.

yes simple, concise and to the point.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes simple, concise and to the point.

Then you have just accepted evolution, congratulations.



I recommend you watch AronRa's Fifteen Foundational Falsehoods of creationism series on youtube.

First of series here;

YouTube

They are both funny and informative.

His channel homepage is here;

http://www.youtube.com/user/AronRa?blend=1&ob=4#g/u

Originally posted by googlefudge
Then you have just accepted evolution, congratulations.



I recommend you watch AronRa's Fifteen Foundational Falsehoods of creationism series on youtube.

First of series here;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnJX68ELbAY

They are both funny and informative.

His channel homepage is here;

http://www.youtube.com/user/AronRa?blend=1&ob=4#g/u

i recommend you stop offering up incense to the God of science and refrain from trying
to invoke rationality and reason for unobserved phenomena. Its nothing more than
dogma masquerading as empirical science.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i recommend you stop offering up incense to the God of science and refrain from trying
to invoke rationality and reason for unobserved phenomena. Its nothing more than
dogma masquerading as empirical science.

Evolution is not an unobserved phenomena.
There is no god of science.
I don't worship science.

Evolution is an observed fact.
The video series I just linked contains examples of observations of evolution, both macro and micro including specialisation.
And I don't mean in the past I mean in the present day being observed.
It includes examples of the myriad of 'transitional' fossils.
And of the DNA evidence for evolution.

Also Evolution is an inevitable consequence of any species that replicates based on a genetic code that varies and mutates
from one generation to the next.

You claim your position represents reality, so your position should stand up to any scrutiny and questioning.
It doesn't which is why you ignore arguments against your idea's and simply attack those making them instead.

Science is competitive, the next generation is always looking to try to oust the ideas of the last, to make the next big
discovery.
If evolution wasn't supported by the evidence, if it didn't make sense, then it would have been destroyed by scientists long
before now.

Nothing in medicine, palaeontology, botany, or any biological science makes any sense at all whatsoever without evolution.
These sciences do work, and make verifiable testable and tested predictions based on evolution.

Creationism on the other hand explains absolutely nothing, makes no predictions, testable or otherwise, and is backed by no
evidence whatsoever.

Evolution is a fact in the same way that gravity is a fact.

Anyone claiming otherwise is either wilfully ignorant or lying.

You have no excuse (living in this country) for being ignorant of how evolution works and the fact of its reality.

And you should watch those video's because they list all the creationist arguments you so love to make and debunks ALL of them,
If nothing else you should watch them to see why none of your arguments work, so you can try coming up with something new
and original for a change.

You claim I am closed minded and ignorant (which I find hilarious btw) however the very reason I am here and engage in debate is so
I can test and have tested my reasons for thinking what I think and believing what I believe, and if my arguments don't stand up then
I can change them, or the beliefs behind them so they do.
I don't think there is any argument you can present that would convince me of god, but I don't know that for certain, so the only thing to
do is to see what you have got and see if it is convincing.
However if you simply regurgitate the same old arguments that have been debunked and refuted a thousand times before, and which I
know by heart you stand precisely zero chance of convincing me or anyone else who has rationally examined this subject at all.

It's not being closed minded to reject arguments you have already examined and refuted.

Evolution is fact, and while the precise details of how it works and what route it took may well continue to be debated and discovered for
a long time to come, in the same way that the precise workings of gravity are still being discussed, tested, and argued over, the fact that
evolution occurs, and explains the diversity of life, completely and irrefutably, will never change, in the same way that the existence of gravity
will never be refuted.
However both evolution and gravity are referred to as theories.
The existence of germs and their role in causing disease is also referred to as 'germ' theory, does this mean it isn't certain that germs cause
disease? (rhetorical question)

Science is not, and never has been a religion, it is the antithesis of everything religion is, claiming otherwise just makes you look desperate.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Evolution is not an unobserved phenomena.
There is no god of science.
I don't worship science.

Evolution is an observed fact.
The video series I just linked contains examples of observations of evolution, both macro and micro including specialisation.
And I don't mean in the past I mean in the present day being observed.
It includes examples of t ...[text shortened]... sis of everything religion is, claiming otherwise just makes you look desperate.

take it to science spanky, this is no place for your materialistic diatribe!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
take it to science spanky, this is no place for your materialistic diatribe!

That will be true if and only if theist ever stop attacking science because it contradicts their faith.
If you (or any theist) claims creationism to be true, or disputes evolution as being true, then you
can't expect those who disagree to not respond with the evidence and reasons to the contrary.

Also I am intrigued by your attempting to use materialistic as an insult.
The world around us is either real and governed by rules and laws, or it isn't.
God is either real or it isn't.
Are you suggesting that evolution is materially right (in that all the evidence and reason and logic support it)
But spiritually wrong, because you think god says it isn't so?

In other words it doesn't matter what the world is like only what god says it is like?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes simple, concise and to the point.

Proper job!!!!

The next part isn't a question it's just an analogy to try get a better perspective on how the long time periods are when we talk about evolutionary time frames. Humans brains didn't evolve (humour me!!) to deal with vast distances of time and space. What's the difference between 1 million and 10 million? To me there just numbers on a page, all i know is i'd rather have 10 million than 1 million if we're talking about money. The same with distances, 10 light years and 1 light year? It's just numbers my brain can't conceptualise.

So this analogy is in Bill Bryson's awesome book - The Short History of Nearly Everything. It's about the history of science and the colourful characters invloved, it does have a bit on evolution but you can always skip those chapters 🙂.

The analogy - You have a time machine, and that time machine can take you back in time 1 year in 1 second. So in 10 seconds you go back 10 years, in one minute you go back 60 years and so on and so on.

To get back to the time of Christ would take just over 30 mins. To get back to your Biblical Adam & Eve (6,000 years) would take just over 90mins. To get back to Mitochondrial Eve (200,000 years) would take nearly 2.5 days. To get to the extinction of the dinosaurs (65 million years) would take you just over 2 years. To get back to the Cambrian Explosion (550 million years) would take 17 and a half years!!!!! If i set off now i'd be fifty years old when i get there. To get back to the origins of cellular life some 3.5 billion years ago would take 110 years!!!! You wouldn't make it, you'd be dead.

So back to our chihuahua, granted the code hasn't changed much in 10,000 years (10,000 years being the rough estimate since dogs diverged from wolves). But the 10,000 years when looked upon in evolutionary terms, and not human terms amounts to only 0.000015% since the extinction of the dinosaurs and the rise of the mammals. It is nothing, a mere blink of an eye. Literally.

If those 65 million years were equated to a day on this planet those 10,000 years would be 1.2 seconds. I can fart longer than that. It is nothing.

I've rambled enough. The practice room is a calling me.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Proper job!!!!

The next part isn't a question it's just an analogy to try get a better perspective on how the long time periods are when we talk about evolutionary time frames. Humans brains didn't evolve (humour me!!) to deal with vast distances of time and space. What's the difference between 1 million and 10 million? To me there just numbers on a p ...[text shortened]... n that. It is nothing.

I've rambled enough. The practice room is a calling me.

ok, whatever rocks your socks and your practice room! man i could cut a few riffs
down there. I wonder if they'll ever be a program that lets players have a virtual jam
on-line, you in the practice room with your kit and me in the loft with my
hummbucking pickups and Marshall amp!

Originally posted by RJHinds
Quotes from the American founding fathers about God, the Bible and
Christianity:

"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this - that it connected, in
one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of
Christianity." - John Quincy Adams

"The Bible is the cornerstone of liberty. A student's perusal of the sacre wampbubbles.com/bubble/quotes-from-our-founding-fathers-god-and-america

Oh and in response to the OP.


YouTube

EDIT: The opening covers the topic of the OP but the rest of the Video is relevant to your broader arguments.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Quotes from the American founding fathers about God, the Bible and
Christianity:

"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this - that it connected, in
one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of
Christianity." - John Quincy Adams

"The Bible is the cornerstone of liberty. A student's perusal of the sacre ...[text shortened]... wampbubbles.com/bubble/quotes-from-our-founding-fathers-god-and-america

Millions of years ago and before - there existed the one true eternal and authorized religion Vaisnavism presented by the Vedas and giving the human race complete knowledge of God and Gods creation - and how to have intimate relationship with God by way of embracing the perfect instruction from the Supreme Lord

However 5000 years ago the Kali Yuga began - the age of cheating, quarrel, ignorance, animal killing, false prophets, speculation and everything else.

Then about nearly 4000 years ago Abram had a dream and started a new religion which worshipped one God.

This newly invented religious teaching was Judaism - but about 1700 years ago another newly invented religion came into existence and was presented in the book called the Bible - and which presented to the world a man who they claim was God almighty.

This new religion called Christianity used personalities and stories from the other religion Judaism to give it more believability and it also plagiarized stories from the Vedas to fill its pages

The main character in the Bible is a man called Jesus - who when a young man travelled to the Middle East (Kandahar)and studied Vedic culture and spiritual knowledge - but when he returned to his people and challenged the animal killing religionist of the day with higher transcendental knowledge - they got upset with his authority and had him killed - but they used his name and some knowledge to write their Bible because the name Jesus was very popular at the time and they wanted Jesus to remain the face of their new religion - but not before changing nearly everything Jesus had taught them because they didn't like to hear about reincarnation and demigods and vegetarianism and the new cosmology or about living your entire life in true spirituality for purification - but instead wanted to offer the people the cheap and foolish way of salvation by atonement instead.

Atonement is simply that - you can sin as much as you like and then just atone for it later on - and Jesus was against this because he preached that none can atone for your sins and you must raise your own consciousness to the transcendental platform and become pure by living a principled life - but the pseudo religionist of the day thought this would be too hard for people to follow (and it is) and therefore rejected the teachings of Jesus and gave their new religion the cheap process of atonement (and everyone liked this very much and still do)

The people loved this new religion that promised heaven to them if they simply just accepted this new religion to be the one/only religion - which also and pleasingly allowed them to kill abundantly anything that walked or crawled on the face of the earth (unrestricted killing and they loved it)

But while this new religion was being organized and established -the Vedic teachings were being followed and taught by millions of people at that very same moment - and had been followed faithfully for millions of years before that moment by devoted lovers of the Lord called Bhaktas or Vaisnavas - and in fact the Vedic religion was so advanced it came to mankind in the the world most perfect language Sanskrit which all other languages have their roots in - even Latin and Greek and Hebrew..

Never mind - The world leaders at the time wanted their newly fabricated religion to take off - and burnt and killed and tortured many who spoke against it.

Anyhow many persons who where not the least bit sincere or genuine about God consciousness - accepted this new religion Christianity because they did not have to do anything at all in making any endeavour to change their sinful ways - because a person simply had to go the the priest and confess their sins and you could then simply have another full week to go and sin some more (its still like that even today)

It is no wonder that this new religion was so popular allowing everyone to sin to their hearts content and get it all washed away on Sunday by the priest.

Before long and after killing many people - Christianity is one of the worlds largest false religions in the world and is still giving out tickets to heaven for a 15 minute confession on Sunday morning and a few coins in the bowl.

You cannot fabricate religion - and it must be eternal (like the Vedas) and it must be perfect and it must come to us from the Supreme Lord - and it must have true knowledge - and not written and compiled by womanzing, meat eating, intoxicating pseudo religionists of yesterday - who told us that Moses was talking to the Supreme Lord when in fact he was not.

Any religion that is not eternal and has been fabricated and speculated in recent times - is not authorized and not bonafide - and cannot help anyone to advance on the spiritual path of God consciousness - especially if it supports the slaughter of millions of Gods creatures and actually encourages animal killing.

One of the first qualities a person encapsulates when following true religion - is the quality of compassion and mercy - and this develops in the heart of the person very quickly when they follow and live by the principles of spirituality presented in the Vedic literatures.

Without purifying the heart and gaining compassion and mercy what use is religion? (and those quotes above are therefore just empty words if those qualities are not demonstrated.)

Originally posted by Proper Knob
We'll take it slow piece by piece, i'm in no rush. I've been on this site for nearly 5 years and i can't see myself moving anywhere soon.

A chihuahua evolved from a wolf over a certain period. You accept that. You also accept that a chihuahua doesn't have the same DNA as a wolf, it can't have otherwise it would be a wolf. So it logically follows that ...[text shortened]... nged.

Simple yes or no?!

Now that's me done, the practice room is calling my name.

The Chihuahua’s history is puzzling and there are many theories surrounding
the origin of the breed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chihuahua_(dog)

Originally posted by Dasa
Millions of years ago and before - there existed the one true eternal and authorized religion Vaisnavism presented by the Vedas and giving the human race complete knowledge of God and Gods creation - and how to have intimate relationship with God by way of embracing the perfect instruction from the Supreme Lord

However 5000 years ago the Kali Yuga began - t ...[text shortened]... and those quotes above are therefore just empty words if those qualities are not demonstrated.)

Teemo, the swift scout

Lore:
Teemo is a legend among his yordle brothers and sisters in Bandle City. As far as yordles are concerned, there is something just slightly off about him. While Teemo enjoys the companionship of other yordles, he also insists on frequent solo missions in the ongoing defense of Bandle City. Despite his genuinely warm personality, something switches off inside Teemo's mind during combat so that the lives he must end while on patrol do not burden him. Even as a young recruit, the drill instructors and other trainees found it a little disconcerting that, while Teemo was normally charming and kind, he turned deadly serious and highly efficient the minute combat exercises began. Teemo's superiors quickly steered him toward the Scouts of the Mothership, which is one of Bandle City's most distinguished Special Forces unit alongside the Megling Commandos.

While most yordles do not handle solo scouting missions with a great deal of finesse, Teemo is remarkably efficient at them. His record of success in defending Bandle City from infiltrators easily makes him one of the most dangerous yordles alive, though you'd never know it by having a cup of honey mead with him at his favorite inn. Bandle City chose Teemo as their first champion for the League, and he has taken to it like a duck to water. His signature weapon - a blowgun - uses a rare ajunta poison he personally gathers from the jungles of Kumungu. To help cope with his lengthy periods of isolation, Teemo recently struck up a friendship with Tristana, a fellow League champion and fellow member of Bandle City's Special Forces. This connection is healthy for both yordles, though now Valoran's voracious media outlets circulate rumors that the friendship is turning into a romantic relationship. Regardless, Teemo is a crowd favorite in the League of Legends, and a pint-sized foe that many have come to fear.

Originally posted by Dasa
Millions of years ago and before - there existed the one true eternal and authorized religion Vaisnavism presented by the Vedas and giving the human race complete knowledge of God and Gods creation - and how to have intimate relationship with God by way of embracing the perfect instruction from the Supreme Lord

However 5000 years ago the Kali Yuga began - t ...[text shortened]... and those quotes above are therefore just empty words if those qualities are not demonstrated.)

There is no evidence that Jesus traveled to Kandahar to study Vedic culture
and spiritual knowledge. There is no proof the scriptures of the Holy Bible
have been changed. The proof is that Jesus said He was the way, the truth,
and the life, meaning that He was the true and only way to know the true
God and to obtain eternal life in Heaven. Jesus proved this by voluntarily
allowing Himself to be crucified so He could raise after 3 days and nights
as He predicted He would. He even left the empty grave and an image of
His face on the cloth that covered His face and an image of His whole body
on the linen shroud that wrapped His body as proof. Then after appearing
alive to many witnesses, He was taken up into heaven by angels of God.
The leaders of all other religions are still in their graves. And no other
religion has a holy book that has fulfilled prophecies like the Holy Bible.
So the vedic religion is just another false religion with a little truth mixed
in for good measure.