Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]secularism has done nothing for humanity.

Yes it has. It's banished the lunatic religious folk to the fringes where over the course of time they will become obsolete. What more could you ask for?![/b]

i like the internet more. i am more thankful for that.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
It is what it is Rob.

Closing your mind off to the evidence (something you admit to) because it doesn't fit in with what you want to believe is certainly not the way to go. No 'truth' will be found down that path. I go where the evidence takes me, and before me stands a big empty ocean.

just a table standing empty by the edge of the sea!

evidence of what?, you know as well as i do that your materialism relies upon a host of
unobserved phenomena and is simply another form of religious observance.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
just a table standing empty by the edge of the sea!

evidence of what?, you know as well as i do that your materialism relies upon a host of
unobserved phenomena and is simply another form of religious observance.

The evidence for evolution my good man. The naturalistic explanation for the diversification of life on this planet. The evidence which you admitted yourself to being 'closed minded' about. How is a closed minded person ever going to find the truth? It's an impossibility!!!! You seek that which agrees with your predetermined worldview, anything which conflicts is ignored.

Not an empty table by the sea, but an adventurer ready to begin the voyage across the expanse that is wonder of nature. You meanwhile are stuck in the changing room too afraid to come out.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
The evidence for evolution my good man. The naturalistic explanation for the diversification of life on this planet. The evidence which you admitted yourself to being 'closed minded' about. How is a closed minded person ever going to find the truth? It's an impossibility!!!! You seek that which agrees with your predetermined worldview, anything which con ...[text shortened]... hat is wonder of nature. You meanwhile are stuck in the changing room too afraid to come out.

i scorn the changing room and promenade in the ocean skinny dipping, free from all
concerns, intent only to realise the creators intelligence of design from an observation
of the natural world, how limiting it must be to constrict ones thinking to unintelligent
agencies!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i scorn the changing room and promenade in the ocean skinny dipping, free from all
concerns, intent only to realise the creators intelligence of design from an observation
of the natural world, how limiting it must be to constrict ones thinking to unintelligent
agencies!

Actually Robbie one could argue that a supreme being of the absolute highest intelligent would be more likely to design a system such as evolution. What is more intelligent:

A. a system where you have to design and create each individual species/form of life on its own

or

B. a system that has the ability to evolve, survive, and diversify on its own with infinite possible variations

Honestly, I think your bible tries to put too many limitations on the creator of the universe.

Originally posted by Ullr
Actually Robbie one could argue that a supreme being of the absolute highest intelligent would be more likely to design a system such as evolution. What is more intelligent:

A. a system where you have to design and create each individual species/form of life on its own

or

B. a system that has the ability to evolve, survive, and diversify on its own ...[text shortened]...
Honestly, I think your bible tries to put too many limitations on the creator of the universe.

yes its more intelligent to create a system which adapts, but one that transmutates is
bordering upon the surreal. Which limiting factors has our Bible proclaimed, for it
cannot be easy to describe in terms which are readily accessible concepts of an entity
far removed from our own experience.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i scorn the changing room and promenade in the ocean skinny dipping, free from all
concerns, intent only to realise the creators intelligence of design from an observation
of the natural world, how limiting it must be to constrict ones thinking to unintelligent
agencies!

I limit my thinking to nothing but the evidence, where the evidence goes i follow.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes its more intelligent to create a system which adapts, but one that transmutates is
bordering upon the surreal. Which limiting factors has our Bible proclaimed, for it
cannot be easy to describe in terms which are readily accessible concepts of an entity
far removed from our own experience.

Do you even know how speciation occurs? And then, do you want to know how speciation occurs?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Do you even know how speciation occurs? And then, do you want to know how speciation occurs?

yeah yeah, over squillions of years supposed aberration at a molecular level produces
changes to the DNA sequencing code blah de blah de blah, this may be precipitated by
environmental and/or other factors, blah de blah de blah.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
I limit my thinking to nothing but the evidence, where the evidence goes i follow.

unobserved phenomena!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yeah yeah, over squillions of years supposed aberration at a molecular level produces
changes to the DNA sequencing code blah de blah de blah, this may be precipitated by
environmental and/or other factors, blah de blah de blah.

Let's work this through.

Do you deny the DNA code can change over time?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Let's work this through.

Do you deny the DNA code changes over time?

i know that DNA is designed to resist changes to its structure, that when aberration
occurs , it has self repair enzymes which initiate to repair any structural damage.

Whether there is enough change to justify speciation, i have seen no evidence, no not
in the e coli experiments, nor anywhere else. That an organism can adapt to an
environment i have no problem with, but then again adaptation is not transmutation.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i know that DNA is designed to resist changes to its structure, that when aberration
occurs , it has self repair enzymes which initiate to repair any structural damage.
Whether there is enough change to justify speciation, i have seen no evidence, no not
in the e coli experiments, nor anywhere else.

Yes DNA has mechanisms within it to fix errors, but it doesn't fix all errors.

So you accept that DNA coding can change over time?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Yes DNA has mechanisms within it to fix errors, but it doesn't fix all errors.

So you accept that DNA coding can change over time?

well i dont know, ill need to think about that, for its clear that if an anomaly does occur,
it may result in a simple variation such as different hair colouring, different colour of
eyes etc etc , or it may produce something inferior, for to be sure the sequence of
DNA and the resulting proteins are very exacting for each fits a specific predetermined
purpose.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
well i dont know, ill need to think about that, for its clear that if an anomaly does occur,
it may result in a simple variation such as different hair colouring, different colour of
eyes etc etc , or it may produce something inferior, for to be sure the sequence of
DNA and the resulting proteins are very exacting for each fits a specific predetermined
purpose.

I'm only after whether you accept that DNA coding changes over time. I'm not after what it's effects are, just whether you accept that it happens.